Coalbrookdale Darby

[franco b]

All your troubles are probably connected to ash removal. Uneven fire means uneven air getting through the coal bed. Short burn times as well, but we don't know how hard you are burning or how much coal in 24 hours, which of course will effect how often it needs tending.

Concentrate your efforts on developing a technique to clear the ash well. Start by raking underneath the grates with your knife or a 1/4 inch rod with a bend on the end as Lanternhillplants has suggested. This will be very effective , but messy, but you will get the idea of what is necessary to get some burning bits to drop. Go on from there to develop ways to do it as well from above, like knifing through the lower part of the front grill, perhaps using a rod with a bend on the end. Combine this with shaking.

You saw how well the stove worked with a fresh fire. It will work that way all the time if the fire bed can breath and not be occluded with ash. Your aim should be 12 hour tending times with a decent fire.

[Liz570]

Thank you all. In retrospect I agree that it was a timing issue of ash removal. Yesterday the stove was burning well & around 2PM I shook the ashes and added coal. * This was about 2 & 1/2 hours before I normally tend the fire.( the ash pan was clean prior to shaking) Then did nothing until 8pm +/-. The fire still looked good. I did not add any extra coal or shake it before retiring as it was burning well. I think that is where the problem came in. Too many ashes/too little air. I need to stick to set time table for de-ashing & loading.

Tonight the house is hot! Even though the stove is cut way back. It seems so hard for me to actually add more coal when it is burning so hot. The front draft is barely open. Maybe it's the weather as it is mild outside. However I do not want to lose the fire again ( so soon). Is it ok to have the draft cut back to almost closed? Again I am worried about losing fire...it's not the end of the world but it is an inconvenience.

I am curious about the amount of coal we are burning as well. So far today I have used 1 & 1/2- 5 gallon buckets full. I guess I need to weigh them to see what a bucket actually weighs. Am I burning too much? I think back to a past post that ask 'why wouldn't you fill it up?' Again my wood burning mentality is creeping in. Can the amount of coal burning be controlled by the amount of air allowed into the firebox? In other words, if I fill it, won't it all burn or if the draft is too restricted then the fire may go out, correct?? I am not going to keep bugging you about this as I think it will become evident the more we burn the stove. I just don't know what to expect and a wee bit overwhelmed.

Perhaps if Lanternhillplants would be willing to explain how he operates his Darby in regards to the knifing process addressing how much & where in the bed I will follow that lead. Can you stab it too much? What is Windyhill's time frame as far as loading coal? Do you do each step in turn one after the other or is there a period of time between the 1st & 2nd coal loading ?

Honestly I am making this a lot harder than it needs to be.
On an upbeat note: The gloves sound like a good idea & will get a pair. I found a nice coal shovel today as my husband has been asking for one. It's an old 'Neverbreak'. I actually think it can be used to clean out the ash residue in the area where the ash pan slides in. It has a long handle & solid/rigid shallow scoop. Shhh...it's for Christmas!
Thanks for all the advice and good night....yes it's early but it's been a trying day! Liz

[franco b]

A full 5 gallon bucket is about 40 pounds and 1.5 buckets is 60 pounds. Quite a bit. A lot of ash to get rid of. Here is a video of knifing the grates from below made by a member from Quebec. It is not your stove but has a similar grate system so you should get the idea. Your grates do not protrude down so much and you don't have to be as aggressive as the girl in the video.



You can cut the air way down and still hold the fire provided it is not full of ash. A magnetic thermometer on the stove lets you monitor what is happening. Another on the stove pipe is helpful also.

Yes do stick to a reasonable time table, preferably 12 hours, but do a thorough job then. You need a minimum of about 8 inches of coal, but can go a bit less with a low fire and a bit more if burning hard. The routine that Windy indicated is good which is 12 hours. I would recommend a more moderate fire until you get a good feel, more like one bucket of coal. Lisa recommends keeping a log of what you do to help learning.

On the bright side your adventure makes a good story and your sincerity makes it so.

[windyhill4.2]

The amount of coal in the stove will only affect the temp if to little is in,then the stove will actually run hotter as the air can more easily get thru the coal bed.Fill the stove with coal twice daily & then learn what draft adjustments to make based on that.It does sound like you are burning a lot of coal, BUT, do you have temp gauges for stove & pipe ? That will help determine if you are exhausting more heat than necessary.Yes,incoming air up thru the grates is what determines the burn rate,you can fill it full & still have the stove top in the 300* range as an example. I have been taking about 8-10 mins between coal loads till tonite. Coalvet is a member who has been heating with a Crane 404 for 4 yrs. He says he loads all the coal at one time & waits in the room with the stove for about 15 mins for flames to appear,he then closes the ash door & walks away.I did this way tonite,it is quite quick to get to the finish line this way. Your stove may not work the same way so you might not want to try this way.My 404 has grates that move back & forth,but the movement is very limited so I usually poke & slice from the bottom every time I shake,i poke & slice to get the ash pan glowing evenly all across.I just turn my head upside down to watch while I poke & slice.Need some fresh blood on top of the brain anyway.

[ShawninNY]

The Darby has a large fire box so I don't think 60 pounds is a lot for that size , I do think you may be burning faster than you need to ( it could be your chimney is pulling major draft) in my first post I advised about waiting to install the barometric damper, it may be necessary in your situation as stated by others throttling air way down will not kill your fire providing it was burning in the first place , outdoor temp swings take a lil getting used too , 60 pounds should be giving you at least 12-18 hr burns at moderate stove output !

[blrman07]

Wood burners paradox:

Lots of coal burns for a long time. Little amount of coal burns for a little time.

In a wood stove the more wood you put on the hotter it gets. In a coal stove the more air you put through the hotter it gets.

Wood wants over fire air. Coal wants under fire air. Give wood lots of over fire air, it burns good. Give coal lots of over fire air it goes out.

Fire needs three things. Air Fuel Heat. Put in the fuel, supply heat, supply air you get things hot. Restrict any one of the three things get cold quickly.

[Liz570]

Good evening, Well, we are back in business tonight. I truly want to thank all of you for your most recent input. A special thanks to Lisa who recommended keeping a log. I started one today. Bit boring but I'll catch on. Mainly it will be helpful to record other details surrounding the daily burn& help me remember what works & what doesn't.
I watched the video and found it interesting. A friend of ours who stabs his fire said "you just stick a knife in there and let some of the air up & ashes out." Really? So I was quite surprised at the way the girl in the video did every space between all the grates. I wish I could reach ours from the bottom but I have to come from the top down. Maybe if I used a 'L' shaped poker ( as suggested) I could do it but there is very limited space between the ash pan area & grates. & I agree it is messy. I also learned that you can NOT lay the poker down on a wood floor after clearing ashes. I have a nice burn mark to prove it. I do wonder about the about of light from the glowing coal that is reflected in the ash pan...does that mean I have removed too many ashes & could possibly warp the grates? Or is it normal to see that glow? At least I know the air is getting in.

Stove burnt nicely all day. It was nice coming home to a warm house on such a rainy day. My husband commented on how much I enjoy tending the stove! Hmmm. I am just trying to figure it out. I have to stick with it. There is a lot to learn. He's offered to make me a cleanout tool for the grates!

The flue temperature is around 150 degrees and the stove was running about 375-400 this AM. Currently it is around 450, flue temp still @150. Is that OK? Today we have used 1 bucket of coal. I always hesitate to add more before retiring for some reason but I guess I will fill it completely, shake & poke and see what the morning brings. Tomorrow I will get on the 12 hr loading schedule interspersed with de-ashing every 4-6 hrs. Rev Larry said he stabs/knifes once a day before retiring. I will do the same. is once a day enough? Time will tell. Thanks again.
Liz

[ShawninNY]

Liz , stack temp of 150* is awesome , mine runs about 2-250 if my stove body is over 400 , you've made awesome progress in such a short time, Congrats on your warm house upon your return home!

[franco b]

This is the poker I use to clear ash in a stove similar to the video except I do it from the top through the coal bed. The grates operate in a similar fashion to yours. The offset lets you twist the poker to sweep the grates once below the burning coal. Ash feel very soft compared to unburned coal so easy to do more or less by feel. Flat 1/8 x 3/4 x 20 inches long steel.The offset would have to be welded to be accomplished. Insert about every 2 inches along front. Do every 12 hours and load fresh coal.

Glow in pan is good and will not harm grates. Letting ash build up will harm grates.

[windyhill4.2]

You branded your floor ? Post pics of it on here,then if your floor should ever get stolen the record of your brand will be on file right here which will make it so much easier for the police to identify when found. My Crane 404 stove top @ 460*, stack temp b4 the last elbow is 130*,but I do have a baro & that temp is after the baro.I turn the light on beneath my grates 2 times each day ,(shake,poke & slice)

[Liz570]

Thanks I need that laugh from Windyhill! Floor branding, what a novel decorating idea!

Franco b,the tool is awesome. Now I understand: Every 2' across the front every 12 hrs. it's in my log book now.

Last night I read the post on dampers. Probably more confused than ever but that's ok. I'll keep reading & reviewing and I'll get it. For now our MPD is working well and as they say if it's not broke, don't fix it. Hubby has a baro damper waiting to be installed should we finally determine we need one. Not being an expert & little experience, my intuition says it is fine. Maybe not scientific or very accurate but it's basically reliable...my intuition that is .

Stove looks great this morning. Have a great day!

[Liz570]

Ok so it's too early this AM I meant every 2 inches not 2 feet!

[windyhill4.2]

I really like the baro on mine,we get such strong wind here that even with the baro we have seen the magnehelic reading .15 instead of the usual .02-.05 . I didn't put an mpd in & am glad I didn't as the stack temps are very good as it is.I suspect that without the baro,when the wind is gusting @30 mph+ we would have issues with the gaskets getting sucked up the chimney.The baro helps keep the draft much more consistent for us which makes it so much easier to set & maintain the output of the stove.

[Liz570]

Oh no more info to process. Thanks. we don't have wind here very often. I have been working on tree windbreaks for many years. Our previous house was on a hill....it was too windy! I called it 'hurricane hill' among other things. A little wind is ok but I hate the feeling of being blown away every time you step outside.

Hubby is planning on reading post about Baro dampers & then we'll debate. But really I'm just not seeing the need yet.

Time to do the stove.....have a good day & thanks again

liz

[blrman07]

Oh no more info to process. Thanks. we don't have wind here very often. I have been working on tree windbreaks for many years. Our previous house was on a hill....it was too windy! I called it 'hurricane hill' among other things. A little wind is ok but I hate the feeling of being blown away every time you step outside.
Hubby is planning on reading post about Baro dampers & then we'll debate. But really I'm just not seeing the need yet.
Time to do the stove.....have a good day & thanks again
liz

OH NO!!! You are now entering the Baro vs MPD zone!!!

This area is one of the most contentious in the world of burning black rocks. There appears to be no in-between. A barometric damper is a device that will help to tame excessive draft from your chimney. You and your hubby will find 180 degree opposite opinions along with everything in-between insisting that they are all right.

Each stove/furnace/boiler is different as well as their locations, set ups, chimneys, on a hill, not on a hill, in a non windy area and constant 30 knot winds. There is a place in Pa. called Wind Gap Pa. for a reason. I have three chimney's in three different spots in this little 985 sq ft house. One is in the dining room dedicated to the VC 2310. It works great and all I have on it is an MPD that stays wide open all the time.

One is for the oil burner in the basement that is now used only for domestic hot water and as a backup in case we get sick and I can't tend the stove. When I want, I shut down the oil burner and disconnect the flue and attach it to a bucket a day coal burning water heater. The flue pipe I use has a baro AND an MPD on it. If I don't have the barometric damper, the draft is strong enough on that chimney to suck the cat in if he walks to close. Without the baro there is way to much draft for the little bucket a day water heater WITH the MPD closed! It will burn up all the coal in a matter of a couple of hours. With the baro it will burn up to around 8 hours. Big difference. The third chimney was for a coal cook stove in the kitchen which was long ago removed long before we got here. That chimney is original to the house and appears to be in bad shape. We have been here two 1/2 years and I haven't uncapped it to even look down it from the top. But who knows? It might be good.

Long and short is I have to use a phrase that a regular on the forum named Sting uses.

"IT DEPENDS"

IF you have a strong draft that is causing over-firing with everything closed try putting in an MPD.
IF you still have a strong draft that is causing over-firing with everything closed put in a barometric damper.
The only way your going to know your draft number and if it is too strong or not is to measure it. Guessing will work depending on how good your guesser is. My guesser function gets out of calibration quite often according to my wife!

But that is a completely different thread and one I prefer not to go to. Kinda like the baro vrs mpd zone........

Repeat your wedding vows to each other before going into the ZONE