Putting my AA130 to use

[Retro_Origin]

If I had an indirect I could set the low even lower but right now with the tankless coil I'm kind of stuck with the higher setpoint.

The single aquastat is basically serving as a dump zone only after heat calls, brings it down to 160 and the low limit is 160 with a ten degree diff , so after a heat call it always idles where I want it. Also reinstated the high limit, before I wasn't using it because it would over shoot so bad, but with only the low limit it would pull the boiler temp down so much on heat call, now the single aquastat fixes both problems, no circulation under 160 and after a heat call it purges down to that same point

[Bonz]

How high does it over shoot and what's your concern? Does it shoot over 210 with a high set at 160?

[Retro_Origin]

It usually hits the low nineties with set point of 165. Problem is it gets short cycled on mild days, the thermostat calls for just a little spike and dumps all the system water into the boiler, causing a fifteen or longer minute run to recoup , then once heat starts to circulate the thermostat gets satisfied quickly and all the heat just made sits in the boiler and dissapates to the surroundings and up the chimney.

The real winner is that after a combustion run, with circulation, it takes a good ten minutes for the boiler temp to even start to drop, basically the overshoot happens at nearly the same rate as my radiators can emit heat. Normally I lose most of that unless heat calls are close together like on cold days, now I get to use it.

A boiler having more water volume wouldn't see this hard swing, and might even be able to satisfy calls without a combustion run,I think if the axeman idles all the time at a high temp, without covers, then I'm losing any benefits from it's low mass design. A large water mass system at a lower temp might be losing just as much heat too! But it's harder to notice in my mind.

[Bonz]

I'm guessing your circulator doesn't run 24/7. I'm thinking I want to relocate my circulator and not run it 24/7 like I did this year. I was nervous about freezing pipes in the garage but now I know that's a none issue. If the axeman goes out there in natural circulation so it will not freeze. That's why I was asking about the over shoot, I run my system at 175 so it may shoot higher than your system.

[Bonz]

I'm guessing your circulator doesn't run 24/7. I'm thinking I want to relocate my circulator and not run it 24/7 like I did this year. I was nervous about freezing pipes in the garage but now I know that's a none issue. If the axeman goes out there in natural circulation so it will not freeze. That's why I was asking about the over shoot, I run my system at 175 so it may shoot higher than your system.

[Retro_Origin]

I'm guessing your circulator doesn't run 24/7. I'm thinking I want to relocate my circulator and not run it 24/7 like I did this year. I was nervous about freezing pipes in the garage but now I know that's a none issue. If the axeman goes out there in natural circulation so it will not freeze. That's why I was asking about the over shoot, I run my system at 175 so it may shoot higher than your system.

I run constant circulation through my primary loop, where the single aquastat controlling the dump is located, but it might add half a gallon or so to the boiler. The zone circulator though is the one that comes on with the dump is not constant circulation.

The best way I think is constant circulation with an outdoor reset and a mixing valve.

You could solve your problem too by just running the circulator on a timer to prevent freezing.

I've overshot over 200 with 175 set point. She's a fiesty one!!

[Bonz]

Interesting. With constant circulation my system never over shoot more than 3 degrees, 4 degrees would be a lot. I'm thinking it would if the circulator is shut off after a heat call. Just trying to get an idea by how much.

[Retro_Origin]

So where is all that heat going? I've noticed after installing an hour meter, it burns more than expected even after the fan shuts off.

[Dave 1234]

Kieth , is the aquastat turned back down now that winter heat demand is over ?

I did'nt read lot's of the latest news on your system . This just popped into my little brain .

150 ish ? degs

[Retro_Origin]

Hey Dave! As much as I would like to, it is not, it may just be my situation but the pickup is not fast enough to recover after idling so long when someone starts up a shower. If I wasn't running the pulley reduction it wouldn't be an issue, but then larger overshoots would, so I'm kinda screwed either way. If I went back to the ink bird I could probably hold a tighter diff and get a bit lower, like Lee has done, but I'm not real happy with the way it sits in the thermo well.

Looking for ideas! My only thought would be an indirect so the heat is stored already and if the boiler takes some time getting up to temp it won't matter. I don't remember if I ran a timer last summer, but pea with a timer may keep the fire peppy enough where I can come down a few degrees on the low limit, we'll see!

[Dave 1234]

I see what you are dealing with Kieth .

Maybe a big boiler-mate will show up cheap on FB market place close to you soon . I spotted one out by the road last year and my son has it now . She was a temporary install a guy just wanted gone .

They are super nice for the half-hour long ''girl showers''.

[Rob R.]

Insulate the Keystoker real well and use it as a buffer tank. It would act like a huge flywheel and take all the temperature swings out.

Could even use it as a reverse indirect if the coil is still in it. Would be similar to a “Turbomax” indirect.

[SMITTY]

My indirect was the best thing I ever did for hot water in this place.

Originally had a home-made getup, tied in to an old electric hot water heater that was gutted (just a holding tank). It took the tankless coil hot water from the oil boiler and ran it inside before sending it to the faucets. Worked 2,000x better than just the tankless coil, but we'd frequently run it cold on the weekends when big mountains of laundry and dishes were done.

Just be advised that the electronics WILL fail. It has a multi-voltage capability, and when the relay takes a dump in the magic box, it defaults to 220V! Feeding it 120V causes it to go berzerk and it becomes 100% useless.

There's a workaround that I've long since forgotten. If I wrote it down, I have no clue where to find the paper. LUCKILY I found an electrical engineer's post on Amtrol's site over 15 years ago that outlined exactly how to fix this issue without having to drop $200+ on a new one. Guy saved me a TON of $$$!!! I was so happy!

All I have left are pictures, some of which got corrupted. The long and short of it is you need to desolder a relay, then solder in a couple jumpers, and I THINK remove a cap, too.

What stupid engineering! If the majority of homes in America are 120V, then why in the hell would you design something so that a failure prone relay carries the load 100% of the time?? I probably already know the answer to that ...

[Retro_Origin]

Insulate the Keystoker real well and use it as a buffer tank. It would act like a huge flywheel and take all the temperature swings out.

Could even use it as a reverse indirect if the coil is still in it. Would be similar to a “Turbomax” indirect.

I've gone back and forth with this, only, I'm not sure at what temperature I would have to store the keystokers 55 gallons to temper the incoming city water at roughly 60 degrees. If the total water temperature dropped too low then it would take a long time to recover.

I guess I would have to separate it from the Axeman to prevent gravity heat loss...I guess the boiler isn't doing me any good, and the coil is still in, I could spray foam the whole thing and take the stoker unit and hopper off and sell/get rid of them... need some more advise on what temps would be suitable.

If I had someone to buy the keystoker, it would make room for an indirect, the only thing is...priorities...I'm not moving the keystoker unless I have lots of time and gumption, not to mention, the old oil boiler is still there...so yes, I have 3 boilers in my basement.

[Dave 1234]

Scrap is up now ............. torch the old unit , maybe someone will have a nice boilermate fs close to the scrap yard for cheap .

This could be a money maker Kieth !

And the wife will think you are a genius .