Beware

[Dakotaguy]

My coal man told me in September he couldn't get coal from lehigh told my brothers the same

[Jeff Van Wickle]

My coal man told me in September he couldn't get coal from lehigh told my brothers the same

Not sure where they got that information. We absolutely had coal available in September. If any doubt feel free to direct message me in the future.

[Dakotaguy]

Thanks for the correct information

[lincolnmania]

We are currently $350/ton loose & $420 per pallet/ton at Lehigh. Contrary to Dakotaguy's post in September, we have plenty of coal for all retail needs.

Why not $250? you are killing us here!
Sell overseas for whatever price you want but you are hurting us locals and clearly you do not care!
you are pushing more and more people to install gas heating and electric heat pumps.

I have been burning coal for years and I'm used to the price going up a little bit every year not more than doubled!
you guys were at $170 a ton in 2021 iirc.
I won't even use my regular coal delivery guy because he refuses to go to one of the lower cost breakers for me. Sorry not paying $400 a ton delivered when I can get it myself for $200 a ton.
glad I got a good truck and a good back!

[Jeff Van Wickle]

We would be out of business if we sold anthracite for $250 unfortunately. The cost to produce a ton of anthracite is higher than ever.

[mozz]

Funny, you say you mine your own coal and others are selling for 200-250. How do they do it?

[Rob R.]

If it is anything like farming, there might be some small operators with minimal debt, no/little employee benefits, and haven't reinvested much into the business in many years. Compare that to an operation with significant debt, large payroll & insurance costs, and the costs can be quite different. It isn't my intent to defend or compare specific companies, just pointing out that there may be some significant differences in the business model of a small operation vs. a large operation.

If you are able to haul your own coal and can go to an small operation and get great pricing, that sure seems like the way to go.

[nepacoal]

Wow, it sure sounds like you're comparing... And trying to help Lehigh justify their obvious price gouging.

No need to haul your own coal from smaller, lower priced breakers in NEPA. Just call your coal guy and ask which breakers they'll haul from. My coal guy has relationships with up to 6 breakers during the year. Just choose anyone except Lehigh and you're likely to be treated fairly without being gouged!

[Rob R.]

Wow, it sure sounds like you're comparing... And trying to help Lehigh justify their obvious price gouging.

I was trying to offer a different perspective.

For the first time in 10 years I did not buy from Lehigh this year due to their pricing. If you think that is trying to help them justify their pricing, I don't know what else to tell you.

[nepacoal]

Fair enough, Rob... I guess I'm still shocked at their actions when compared to other large operations like Jeddo. Jeddo stayed at $198 for a long time after Lehigh jumped to $450. I think the landslide Lehigh had affected their operations far more than fuel prices, but we'll likely never know the full truth behind their pricing decisions.

[Sunny Boy]

I was trying to offer a different perspective.

For the first time in 10 years I did not buy from Lehigh this year due to their pricing. If you think that is trying to help them justify their pricing, I don't know what else to tell you.

My dealer here stopped selling Lehigh. Price would have lost him even more customers because it's so easy to get firewood here. Full cords of seasoned hardwood, split, delivered, and stacked are $200.00 - $210.00. Even after the wood dealer's fuel costs also went up.

Paul

[BunkerdCaddis]

I was trying to offer a different perspective.

I appreciate your even keel on this Rob, and yes, there are different perspectives, I'll offer a bit different one. I spent three years trying to talk my local dealer into carrying Lehigh, as I had been burning it for awhile and was very happy. He finally got a small load of bagged in and I bought some even though it was bagged and more expensive, other people that bought it told him it burned well and they liked it. Then they had the issue with the slide or whatever and the quality went down, Ok get that, mother nature plays her tricks. But sometime at the beginning of the price hike there were attitudes displayed regarding small dealers and local markets and the last bags of Lehigh I bought were the last I'll ever be able to get locally , so more's the shame than anything. I still buy from my local dealer although he can't touch what I get from Sherman. I just find it ironic that since the euro market dropped this conversation is happening...

[Rob R.]

Jeddo stayed at $198 for a long time after Lehigh jumped to $450. I think the landslide Lehigh had affected their operations far more than fuel prices, but we'll likely never know the full truth behind their pricing decisions.

I've wondered if Jeddo's low price had anything to do with why they had to sell to Atlantic Carbon - who now charges $325 per ton. Did they run the place into the ground? Or was it just a retirement decision? As you said, we will never know the whole story.

My dealer here stopped selling Lehigh. Price would have lost him even more customers because it's so easy to get firewood here. Full cords of seasoned hardwood, split, delivered, and stacked are $200.00 - $210.00. Even after the wood dealer's fuel costs also went up.

Paul

My closest coal retailer didn't order as much coal as he normally does at the start of the season. I think it was a combination of expecting demand to go down, and not wanting to get stuck with a lot of expensive coal if the wholesale price goes down.

Your local price on firewood is better than mine. Around here generally the best you can do is $225 per cord, and that is for unseasoned wood dumped in a pile. Most of the coal burners I know have stoker boilers, so switching to firewood is not an option.

[StephenD]

I talked to a dealer locally in early October and he said his company Rep. from Blaschak had stopped in and of course pricing was discussed. He said that last year they were paying $16,000 for a tanker load of Diesel. This year it jumped to $38,000 a load. He said they are not profiting anymore today than 10 years ago because of inflation on everything.

Their whole operation is heavy equipment dependent, so even though I don't like the increases, those big toys are very expensive to operate. Bidenflation is gouging us all.

[lzaharis]

Anyone can blame President Biden if they wish for the increase in coal prices but this is not how profit and loss is determined to operate a business of any type let alone strip mining to reclaim unmined coal or gob which is coal and waste that was tossed aside a century ago because it was too hard to mine.

The free market system in which we live with is what determines retail prices not the president of the United States.

The congress and the senate vote on economic policies using 435 votes and the decision to approve that policy is the presidents alone unless his veto is overidden by the house of representatives.

What the consumer has little knowledge of is how accounting in mining works beyond paying for coal loads or bagged coal.

Paying real estate taxes, fuel taxes, and local sales tax and basic needs like food, upkeep of a home, a mortgage, personal loans like car loans or a loan to pay for a coal stoker or a forest eater are essentially a much smaller way of doing business.

The cost of doing business in the United States involves a great deal more than most people can comprehend or understand let alone visualize as they see money flying out of their purse or wallet
and do not understand how economics affects a capitalist based society that must have profit to continue to operate in the black or suffer losses which creates red ink.

=================================================================================
There is much more to surface mining than people fail to see or realize in the course of selling and buying any type of coal.

To begin with coal mining in strip mines is regulated by the United States Department of Interiors Office of Surface Mining Reclamation & Enforcement.

The Code of Federal Regulations Title 30 Chapter 7 is the primary regulator of coal mining in the United States. Surface strip mining of coal is regulated by Title 5 of the Surface Mining and Reclamation Act.

The Mine Safety and Health Administration oversees enforcement and charging fines for violations for both metal, non metal and coal mines. Surface and underground mines are inspected quarterly by MSHA trained mine inspectors.

If a mine of any kind operates in the State of Ohio they are also regulated and overseen by the State of Ohio Mine Inspectors as well as the Mine Safety and Health Administration inspectors from the MSHA office in Ohio.

The State of Ohio Mine inspectors office in the capital freely and legally discriminates against United States non residents of Ohio that apply for mine inspectors jobs in the State of Ohio.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every mine that either deep mines Sub Bituminous coal, Bituminous Coal, Sub Anthracite Coal, Anthracite Coal, strip mines Anthracite Coal, reclaims gob Anthracite Coal, or strip mines Lignite Coal pays a small fee for each ton mined or transferred to the Office of Surface Reclamation Enforcement Office of Financial Management in Denver, Colorado for each ton they mine and these fees are paid quarterly.

=================================================================================

As I said there is much more to this issue than just openly blaming the President of the United States for everything as there is much more involved.


I have attached the current issue of the Office of Surface Reclamation & Enforcement Payers Handbook if anyone wants to read it.