Putting my AA130 to use

 
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mozz
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Post by mozz » Fri. Jan. 27, 2023 4:00 pm

Lightning wrote:
Fri. Jan. 20, 2023 5:56 pm
That is correct. If ashing is on the fast side the anthrastat will halt it during the combustion run.
Not really. At idle i see about 140, during the heat call the temps drop, and continues to drop due to colder air being pulled in. You can see that when using the inkbird. You would have to go to 100 or lower to get it to stop ashing during a run. If anything, mine won't ash for the first minute then as the temp drops it starts. You would really have to be about 4 clicks to get the fire to drop a lot and stop the ashing, if it even would happen.

I still don't know how you guys are getting any runs times longer than a minute or 5. Mine is running steam and if i do get a call for heat the water in the sight glass starts jumping more and i guess the steam gets to the radiators pretty quick.

As i said, once mine starts running there is a pause, then it ashes and more than likely continues to ash until the thermostat upstairs is happy. With the inkbird, you would have to have hot coals ready to be dumped into the ash pan for it to stop ashing. Think i am at 110, after a call for heat it does climb back up but highest i have seen yet is 140.

Yes that fire looks too high, need to turn your anthrastat higher, maybe 5 degrees. You need 2 clicks, maybe even 2.5 or 3.


 
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Retro_Origin
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Post by Retro_Origin » Fri. Jan. 27, 2023 4:28 pm

At three clicks, anthrax is set to about 130 if my calibration was successful. I'll try five more degrees. I haven't changed a settings in nearly a week. Still getting some unburnt and heavy ash, thinking of trying some buck since I have a good bit.

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Fri. Jan. 27, 2023 5:29 pm

mozz wrote:
Fri. Jan. 27, 2023 4:00 pm
Not really. At idle i see about 140, during the heat call the temps drop, and continues to drop due to colder air being pulled in. You can see that when using the inkbird. You would have to go to 100 or lower to get it to stop ashing during a run. If anything, mine won't ash for the first minute then as the temp drops it starts.
Are you heating DHW?

You need a "decent" steady heat load to get it to halt ashing during a combustion run. A long shower heating water on demand, or a very cold winter day where the thermostats are calling for heat more often, or both. I have my ashing Inkbird set at 110 and seeing it halt the ashing during a combustion fan run doesn't happen very often for me. I have the ratchet set at 2 with occasional 1 click.

 
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Post by Retro_Origin » Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 9:12 pm

Ok so I'm a little freaked out here...we left the house at two today to go visit family and since it was really warm out I just turned off the thermostats so the heat wouldn't run while we were gone, partially in hopes of getting a nice long fire when I came home, the boiler had run semirecently and was at 182. seven hours later when we got home it was at 210! I can't see any evidence that it ran recently and overshot, seems more like it just sat there and cooked for the whole time! The fire is pretty well down in the pot..Not really concerned about this until summer and the shoulder months, I feel like this thing is just going to have crazy temp swings all the time! Does this sound normal or is the natural draft pulling through the bed instead of the flapper? How would I verify this?

 
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Post by StokerDon » Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 9:58 pm

Retro_Origin wrote:
Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 9:12 pm
Does this sound normal
Yup!
Did you install a bypass?

A lot of the other guys on the forum have a pump running 24/7 to homogenize the water temp. With one of these things when the pump shuts off, they will overshoot. I run a bypass and it helps. Mine will go a little over 200 on a normal run and shutdown.

As long as you have enough expansion volume to keep the PRV from popping off, you're good.

-Don

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 11:03 am

mozz wrote:
Fri. Jan. 27, 2023 4:00 pm
once mine starts running there is a pause, then it ashes and more than likely continues to ash until the thermostat upstairs is happy. With the inkbird, you would have to have hot coals ready to be dumped into the ash pan for it to stop ashing.
There is another aspect of the ash "halting" that I think is overlooked. This would be the time period between fan start up and ashing engagement. Even if the ashing runs till the end of the fan cycle, let's consider the pause before it engages. As it gets colder outside and there is more heat demand, your Axe will fire more often albeit for only 5 minutes at a time. The fire will get closer to the grate and the grate will gradually get warmer between fan combustion runs. The warmth of the grate will cause the pause in front of the ash engagement to become longer in time and shorten the ashing time during that particular combustion run. As fan cycles continue during times of higher heat demand, you may notice that the ashing temperature on the Inkbird just barely dips below it's set point. Then also there may be a fan run where the ashing temperature doesn't quite reach it's set point and the Axe doesn't ash at all during a short combustion run. My point it all this explanation is that the time period before ashing engagement will be variable based on heat demand (and it's current fire depth) and will still control the depth of the fire.

On the flip side of that, if I decide to shower all the vehicles with hot water the Axe may run for 30 minutes straight. During which there will be periods of ash halting during the combustion cycle.

 
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Post by Retro_Origin » Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 12:39 pm

StokerDon wrote:
Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 9:58 pm
Yup!
Did you install a bypass?

A lot of the other guys on the forum have a pump running 24/7 to homogenize the water temp. With one of these things when the pump shuts off, they will overshoot. I run a bypass and it helps. Mine will go a little over 200 on a normal run and shutdown.

As long as you have enough expansion volume to keep the PRV from popping off, you're good.

-Don
yep! I have a primary loop that runs full-time to mix the water returning from the radiant. Normally that runs non stop as well. So, while I have you on the line, doctor Don, still getting some heavy ashtubs and my stack temps are idling over 150. From my flatgrate days I know that partially burnt stuff can be the hardest to reignite on a heat call. Not using a timer and on a typical day I get about a ten to twelve minute run every fifty minutes to seventy minutes plus or minus depending on hot water usage.

To me it seems like it's either time for a baro or to try some buck since our winter has been mild. My normal draft can easily pull .08 without a fire so not sure what the hot flue is generating! I'll check this afternoon. I am mentally toying with the future idea of slowing down the fan and ashing by about 20% to prolong runtime. I know some may shake their heads at that but if my boiler gets a max runtime of fifteen minutes with zones and domestic having yanked the temps down and it still catches up while they're still calling then I see no harm in a slight reduction.


 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 1:47 pm

My stack temp settles to 160-165 during idle periods. Anything lower indicates that my fire is getting weak and unhealthy and could be trending towards going out. I've brought it back to life once or twice when the stack temp dropped to 150 but it took 20 minutes of fan run for it to get back to healthy and start producing good heat. Just to be clear, that measurement is internal flue gas temp taken right at the Pope's hat.

-.08 during idle is pretty strong, and even though the draft brake plate dangling open will satisfy some of that negative pressure, some still could be getting yanked up thru the fire, or more properly stated it is being pushed up thru the fire, however you want to see it.

 
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Post by Retro_Origin » Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 3:22 pm

Draft is -.04. Feel pretty good about that. I'm glad you shared about stack temp being an indicator of fire health, helps me understand more about this. My keystroker would run at 225 degrees but idle about 100. Not sure about that animal though, quite different! It is interesting to me how that fan can draw up through the ash bed, I would think that it would struggle due to the density

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 7:47 pm

Retro_Origin wrote:
Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 3:22 pm
I would think that it would struggle due to the density
I'm sure it is a struggle. But that fan is enormous and produces over an inch of water column of vacuum which is 20 times stronger than a natural drawing chimney at -.05 How can that even be efficient lol, but apparently it is very efficient. According to the Bureau of Mines report, 85% efficient.

I'll open a really big can of worms here by saying that it makes me wonder why we're all so concerned about running our stoves at near zero pressure difference and 1 mph of velocity in the stove pipe lol.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 9:00 pm

The fan sure moves plenty of air when there is no coal in the tube. I flipped the fan on in an S130 a few days ago to verify I had it wired right and it blew a huge mushroom cloud of rust and flyash out. :-D

 
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Post by Retro_Origin » Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 9:17 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 7:47 pm
I'll open a really big can of worms here by saying that it makes me wonder why we're all so concerned about running our stoves at near zero pressure difference and 1 mph of velocity in the stove pipe lol.
Yeah that's got me befuddled. I was waiting for the answer from one of you guys!! They sure are amazing machines, and I think unless you see one in person you can't quite believe it...on a different note, Lee, what do your ashes look like this time of year? Am I right in saying nobody cares about the ashes on these things because the consumption is so decent?
Rob R. wrote:
Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 9:00 pm
The fan sure moves plenty of air when there is no coal in the tube. I flipped the fan on in an S130 a few days ago to verify I had it wired right and it blew a huge mushroom cloud of rust and flyash out. :-D
Not only that but I think the AHS run at 1725 rpm? The axe is geared/pullied up to near 3000 right? It probably takes a good 2-3 seconds for the motor to get up to full speed and when it's done at least 4-5 to come to rest...my only guess is the combustion and transfer efficiency are enough to outweigh the downsides of the fast moving flue gasses...I imagine you could probably stick a heatilator on one of these things because it wouldn't constrict the air movement very much!! I screwed AND taped together every joint of my flue because if it came apart I'd probably have a mess all the way into the attic!!

 
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Post by StokerDon » Mon. Jan. 30, 2023 6:48 pm

Retro_Origin wrote:
Sun. Jan. 29, 2023 9:17 pm
what do your ashes look like this time of year? Am I right in saying nobody cares about the ashes on these things because the consumption is so decent?
You've probably seen what my ashes look like this week. But here they are again.
IMG_0004.JPG
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The key to efficiency is matching the BTU output to the load as best you can. In this mild weather we're having my fan runs about 7 hours per day. When its cold it runs 9 or 10 hours, when its really cold it will run about 12 hours.

I'm not sure why you would be getting unburnt coal this time of year.
-Don

 
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Post by SMITTY » Mon. Jan. 30, 2023 7:13 pm

Nice progress, man! I've been out of the loop for a bit. How's my old 4006 working out?

 
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Post by Retro_Origin » Mon. Jan. 30, 2023 7:38 pm

SMITTY wrote:
Mon. Jan. 30, 2023 7:13 pm
Nice progress, man! I've been out of the loop for a bit. How's my old 4006 working out?
Perfectly! So glad I have that, gives me great peace of mind knowing that mechanical switch has the first say In whether the digital parts can function!
StokerDon wrote:
Mon. Jan. 30, 2023 6:48 pm
You've probably seen what my ashes look like this week. But here they are again.
IMG_0004.JPG
IMG_0005.JPG
The key to efficiency is matching the BTU output to the load as best you can. In this mild weather we're having my fan runs about 7 hours per day. When its cold it runs 9 or 10 hours, when its really cold it will run about 12 hours.

I'm not sure why you would be getting unburnt coal this time of year.
-Don
yes my points exactly. Seems to me the only logical means would be that air is somehow bypassing the bed somehow. Or my feed is set too fast, which could be. Not like I have a super tight house with low load. I get some good clinkers but otherwise heavy stuff an partially burnt. Your ash always looks great! Is it possible I have a blockage in the ash bed? I don't want to keep making adjustments until I have some real data or a good lead


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