Heat Pumps

hotblast1357 · Post by **hotblast1357** » Wed. Jan. 18, 2023 1:33 pm

McGiever wrote: ↑
Wed. Jan. 18, 2023 12:11 pm
Not in my case.

Your question is very vague...

Where are you getting your water from for your multiple DIY pump and dump systems?

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Wed. Jan. 18, 2023 1:53 pm

I have metered NOT constant temperature water utility service for home.

In addition I have a constant temperature well for all my GSHP pump and dumps.

Full disclosure: There is a “pumping penalty” when raising water from a well versus only circulating an antifreeze fluid in a closed loop. More energy spent raising than circulating… but there are reasons to do one vs the other.

LDPosse · Post by **LDPosse** » Mon. Jan. 23, 2023 9:43 am

nut wrote: ↑
Sat. Jul. 23, 2022 10:23 am
I think I'll turn on the electric before I pay $450/ton. In past years I would not light the stove until mid November and the additional electric per month was maybe $75/mon until then. I think mid December might be my start point now. Heat pump is in my future.

We had a major home renovation/addition during 2022. We removed the DS Kozy King 100 and related ductwork, and installed mini splits - two outdoor units and 10 indoor units.

Our electricity usage has gone through the roof. On Christmas Eve, we used 358 kWh in a single day

Our most recent electric bill was $875!!!!

.PNG | 73KB | Screen Shot 2023-01-23 at 9.28.31 AM.png

As of Jan 3, I have all of the mini splits powered off, and I've had a fire going 24x7 in my Consolidated Dutchwest FA264CCL ever since. Usage has returned to expected levels.

.PNG | 4.8MB | Consolidated_Dutchwest_FA264CCL_First_Fire_20221231.png

Post by **Rob R.** » Mon. Jan. 23, 2023 9:58 am

LDPosse wrote: ↑
Mon. Jan. 23, 2023 9:43 am
We had a major home renovation/addition during 2022. We removed the DS Kozy King 100 and related ductwork, and installed mini splits - two outdoor units and 10 indoor units.

Our electricity usage has gone through the roof. On Christmas Eve, we used 358 kWh in a single day Our most recent electric bill was $875!!!!

Screen Shot 2023-01-23 at 9.28.31 AM.png

As of Jan 3, I have all of the mini splits powered off, and I've had a fire going 24x7 in my Consolidated Dutchwest FA264CCL ever since. Usage has returned to expected levels.

Consolidated_Dutchwest_FA264CCL_First_Fire_20221231.png

I think something is wrong with your minisplit installation. For reference, even if you were using electric baseboards that kind of power consumption works out to about 50K btu/hr. To produce that much heat with a coal stove you would have to burn at least 120 lbs in 24 hours.

I would contact your installer.

nut · Post by **nut** » Mon. Jan. 23, 2023 10:10 am

One trouble with a multihead minisplit is it can't turndown as low as a single head. As a result it never modulates and simply cycles on and off. The smallest head is typically oversized for small rooms and runs inefficiently. Did your contractor do a manual J calculation? Could be oversized. Another misconception is sizing is not important since they turn down but truth is they can still be oversized. Even so as Rob points out, your usage seems excessive. Here is an experts explanation[url][/urlhttps://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/question/what-is-min ... ment-54191

nut · Post by **nut** » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 9:26 am

One other cause of short cycling is low refrigerant level. That is one of the troubles with these high pressure levels these units operate at. You have 10 heads , 2 lines per head, 2 flairs per line. Lots of flares that have to be perfect.

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Tue. Jan. 24, 2023 10:40 am

Rob R. wrote: ↑
Mon. Jan. 23, 2023 9:58 am
I think something is wrong with your minisplit installation. For reference, even if you were using electric baseboards that kind of power consumption works out to about 50K btu/hr. To produce that much heat with a coal stove you would have to burn at least 120 lbs in 24 hours.

I would contact your installer.

Yes, something is wrong!!

And that there is how ONE unhappy owner/piss poor installer gives an entire industry a "black-eye"

hank2 · Post by **hank2** » Wed. Jan. 25, 2023 1:06 am

LDPosse wrote: ↑
Mon. Jan. 23, 2023 9:43 am
Our electricity usage has gone through the roof. On Christmas Eve, we used 358 kWh in a single day Our most recent electric bill was $875!!!!

This is a long shot, but I have read of a great many people with PPL power in Schuylkill County getting double or more of their normal billing recently. They had a big meltdown on their use to billing system. So, they issued everyone estimated billings. At about double or more their historic use level and they do expect full payment. With the promise to credit the overpayment back in the future. I'm sure you would have noticed that if it was an estimated bill, but just thought I'd mention it.

That 358 kwh on one day was something else! Your coal stove hearth and install is really nice!

hotblast1357 · Post by **hotblast1357** » Wed. Jan. 25, 2023 5:44 am

I have a 18,000 BTU outside unit and 2 indoor units, I have a panel metering device and mine doesn’t pull over a 1,000 watts, that’s only 24KHW for the day, do yours have back up resistance heaters or something? I mean even then it’s unlikely but..

BigBarney · Post by **BigBarney** » Wed. Jan. 25, 2023 10:52 pm

At 358 kwhr you used 1,221,469 btu or all most 51,000 btu's an hour.

That is an excessive amount.

Why do you have 10 indoor units into only 2 outdoor units?

How many thermostats do you have , one in each room?

BigBarney

nut · Post by **nut** » Thu. Jan. 26, 2023 7:37 am

I think some are being installed one head per room.

nut · Post by **nut** » Thu. Jan. 26, 2023 9:25 am

Sizing question. If installing one head in a 2 story + basement, all floors open to each other by a central staircase, should the unit be sized for the total sq footage or just for the floor it is on?

hotblast1357 · Post by **hotblast1357** » Thu. Jan. 26, 2023 2:50 pm

nut wrote: ↑
Thu. Jan. 26, 2023 9:25 am
Sizing question. If installing one head in a 2 story + basement, all floors open to each other by a central staircase, should the unit be sized for the total sq footage or just for the floor it is on?

One unit is not going to do 3 floors, don’t care the size, that’s not efficient, at minimum one per floor if you could get the air flow to work for each room on each floor, don’t forget air is the worst way to move heat.

k-2 · Post by **k-2** » Sat. Jan. 28, 2023 12:47 am

Lots of complaints about ppls over billing estimated bills but still 4483 KWHs is 5 times my usage so not surprised at 5 times my bill. Good thing you have the coal stove until you can figure it out.

LouNY · Post by **LouNY** » Tue. Jan. 31, 2023 10:14 am

nut wrote: ↑
Mon. Jan. 23, 2023 10:10 am
One trouble with a multihead minisplit is it can't turndown as low as a single head. As a result it never modulates and simply cycles on and off. The smallest head is typically oversized for small rooms and runs inefficiently. Did your contractor do a manual J calculation? Could be oversized. Another misconception is sizing is not important since they turn down but truth is they can still be oversized. Even so as Rob points out, your usage seems excessive. Here is an experts explanation[url][/urlhttps://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/question/what-is-min ... ment-54191

I'm not sure of that I have 7 heads on 2 (36 thousand) outdoor units and I will often hear and see them just barely running. The only time they completely stop is when no indoor head is calling for cooling or heating. I see no constant or even frequent cycling.