That would be awesome!
LL AA-220 Relocation
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- Member
- Posts: 6515
- Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
- Location: Cape Cod, MA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
- Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
The utilities in MA provide a free leak test...
Door Blower...
Check with your local utility to see what they provide at low or no cost...
Door Blower...
Check with your local utility to see what they provide at low or no cost...
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I think we have a little communication breakdown here. I thought we were talking about idle fire and how to adjust it. I thought the pic was supposed to be an idle fire. You have to give the fire time to shrink, 10 minutes is not long enough to gauge and idle fire. At least 1 hour, 2 hours would be better.
-Don
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
Here's an article I post up from time to time about heat loss. It really opened my eyes when insulating and tightening up a building. Imagine a MILLION BTUs per day lost from a basement that didn't seem too bad
Usually I just post the excerpt, but you might be interested in the entire article, so I've added it, too.
About your plumbing...are you running a primary with secondary loops?
Usually I just post the excerpt, but you might be interested in the entire article, so I've added it, too.
About your plumbing...are you running a primary with secondary loops?
Attachments
- swyman
- Member
- Posts: 2355
- Joined: Mon. Apr. 13, 2015 9:50 pm
- Location: Blissfield, MI
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson 260M Leisure Line AA-220 Boiler (FOR SALE)
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Pea
I just have a supply and return manifold to and from boiler. My new basement is insulated and the old is not. I'll have to hit the walls with the IR gun and see the difference. Thanks for posting informationCoalisCoolxWarm wrote: ↑Mon. Feb. 04, 2019 10:50 pmHere's an article I post up from time to time about heat loss. It really opened my eyes when insulating and tightening up a building. Imagine a MILLION BTUs per day lost from a basement that didn't seem too bad
Usually I just post the excerpt, but you might be interested in the entire article, so I've added it, too.
About your plumbing...are you running a primary with secondary loops?
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
So no actual primary loop?
I don't like those kinds of installs for a couple of reasons.
If no zones are calling for heat, what happens?
Boiler "feel satisfied" but all the water in the line can be cool/cold. How long are your runs?
But... if you connect the ends of your supply and return, then run constant circulation through your boiler until the whole loop is up to proper minimum low aquastat temp, your recovery should be better.
Right now the loop isn't really any reserve heat (remember the water volume discussions above) to buffer on a heat call.
Take a scenario like this. If your zones aren't calling for heat, the main lines to the boiler and back, and all the distribution zones get cold. But the boiler is happy as the little bit of water in its jacket is warm and not circulating.
Get a call for heat...cold water from zone dumps into main line, which isn't really up to temp and can't temper the water much with it's limited "standby BTUs" ...boiler gets slugged with double-cold water.
As the boiler tries to heat the water, cool water goes to zone. Cool water doesn't deliver BTUs. Big difference in BTU delivery of 140F water and 190F water in radiant heat (infloor is really good at this, but forget baseboard or modines).
Even if you can strip BTUs out of this cooler water, then the problem only gets worse until the boiler can heat a large volume of water hot enough to come close to efficient. Small lines make this worse.
Next item: Additional boiler.
IF you think you want to go this way, have you read up on parallel installations?
Fix that loop so it circulates, plum in a parallel boiler if you like, preserve your investment
My opinion of what I interpret you have. So many pages, I don't remember all your configuration and details
From previous discussion, here is a screenshot of my heatloss from a while back. Notice "Infiltration" losses. That is what I decided to tackle early, which you could likely benefit from doing a similar analysis and remediation.
Here's a parallel vs series diagram:
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
This is a zoned, manifold system.
It sits there on idle, just like it was designed to do.CoalisCoolxWarm wrote: ↑Thu. Feb. 07, 2019 11:26 amI don't like those kinds of installs for a couple of reasons.
If no zones are calling for heat, what happens?
This is a coal stoker boiler, it is an "on demand" system. Constant circulation completely defeats the purpose of the "on demand" system by constantly pushing heat when it is not needed. There is a way to do what you are suggesting and make it work properly, but it is not as simple as just connecting the supply and return and it doesn't really make sense when using heat exchangers.CoalisCoolxWarm wrote: ↑Thu. Feb. 07, 2019 11:26 amBut... if you connect the ends of your supply and return, then run constant circulation through your boiler until the whole loop is up to proper minimum low aquastat temp, your recovery should be better.
This is a low volume system with heat exchangers, so there is no big slug of coal water. It seems that Swyman has the house and garage heat covered pretty well with his new improvements.CoalisCoolxWarm wrote: ↑Thu. Feb. 07, 2019 11:26 amGet a call for heat...cold water from zone dumps into main line, which isn't really up to temp and can't temper the water much with it's limited "standby BTUs" ...boiler gets slugged with double-cold water.
The only issue left is his long run barn loop and the only problem there is it doesn't keep up when it's -10 and very windy. This is very likely a piping resistance problem in that long run.
-Don
Something like this could help with correcting air infiltration. I picked up an earlier generation of this thermal imager that attaches to my phone a couple years ago and it has been very useful. I've used it to seal up rim joist leaks here, profile the breaker box for loose connections, scan a few friends properties for insulation upgrades, play around for amusement....
https://www.flir.com/products/flir-one-gen-3/?mod ... gKtDfD_BwE
https://www.flir.com/products/flir-one-gen-3/?mod ... gKtDfD_BwE
- swyman
- Member
- Posts: 2355
- Joined: Mon. Apr. 13, 2015 9:50 pm
- Location: Blissfield, MI
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson 260M Leisure Line AA-220 Boiler (FOR SALE)
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Pea
Thanks T, I could not get the $10k+ thermal imaging camera to take home for a day but my boss bought our electricians a few of these smart phone ones and gave me one to try. Now that it is cold here again I will try it out and see how it works.titleist1 wrote: ↑Fri. Feb. 08, 2019 7:18 amSomething like this could help with correcting air infiltration. I picked up an earlier generation of this thermal imager that attaches to my phone a couple years ago and it has been very useful. I've used it to seal up rim joist leaks here, profile the breaker box for loose connections, scan a few friends properties for insulation upgrades, play around for amusement....
https://www.flir.com/products/flir-one-gen-3/?mod ... gKtDfD_BwE
- swyman
- Member
- Posts: 2355
- Joined: Mon. Apr. 13, 2015 9:50 pm
- Location: Blissfield, MI
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson 260M Leisure Line AA-220 Boiler (FOR SALE)
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Pea
It has been very warm here the last week and to be honest this morning is the first time I looked at the fire. Haven't been doing much and using much coal but back to 20* high for the day with 20-30mph winds. Boiler was running at desired temp, garage was 50 and house was very warm and the wife got her steamy hot on demand shower. I guess Stoker Don hit it on the head, simple system and is working well except when we get a polar vortex! The barn is my biggest loss and I need to figure out with the help of all you guys here. I will get some mason's over here after the heating season to see what a chimney will cost and set that as a priority before the start of next heating season. Still have a lot of coal left, might not burn up that 10 ton after all?
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- Member
- Posts: 6515
- Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
- Location: Cape Cod, MA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
- Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
Ask the brickies now while it is slow...
Not much outside work at the moment...
Everybody will be asking once it warms...
Not much outside work at the moment...
Everybody will be asking once it warms...
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- Member
- Posts: 2366
- Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
- Location: Ithaca, New York
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
- Coal Size/Type: rice
- Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused
Hello Swyman,
Have you tried mixing the rice and buck together to burn it yet?
Running a 2/3 buckwheat; 1/3 rice mix for me has been a dream as my kaa-4 does really well with it and I am not making a lot of ash per day.
Have you tried mixing the rice and buck together to burn it yet?
Running a 2/3 buckwheat; 1/3 rice mix for me has been a dream as my kaa-4 does really well with it and I am not making a lot of ash per day.
- swyman
- Member
- Posts: 2355
- Joined: Mon. Apr. 13, 2015 9:50 pm
- Location: Blissfield, MI
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson 260M Leisure Line AA-220 Boiler (FOR SALE)
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Pea
No I haven't and don't feel like taking the time to do it. Seems like a lot of messing around and it's working good enough. I am going to spend the time on my coal vac this sunday. I haven't cleaned it since I started using it, gonna sweep the fly ash out of boiler and vent pipe also and that will about eat up that day!
- swyman
- Member
- Posts: 2355
- Joined: Mon. Apr. 13, 2015 9:50 pm
- Location: Blissfield, MI
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson 260M Leisure Line AA-220 Boiler (FOR SALE)
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Pea
Big ice storm came last night, laying in bed this morning and I could hear furnace running and think YES! Go into the bathroom and look at the clock and it's blinking.F$#*! Went downstairs to look at boiler and see the temp gauges at 100*. Open boiler door and stick my hand on the ash to see if it was hot and I didn't burn it so that was that. Was going to just leave it and get it after work and started heading out then I could hear the wind. I decided what the heck, let's fire this thing up. Took me only 15 minutes to get both stokers firing and pulled the starter rings and set the feed screws best I could. I imagine when I get home I will have a little extra ash on the beds but that's ok. Thank you guys for the cowboy coal trick, it is fast and efficient!