LL AA-220 Relocation

 
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swyman
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Post by swyman » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:06 am

nepacoal wrote:
Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 7:24 am
Any updates on this. I'm betting if you rewired the aquastat using Zc Zr terminals you would all but eliminate propane use except on the coldest days of the year. You could even lower the strap on aquastat temp to 140 to add even more cushion before the propane turned on and turn it back up if needed during a brutal cold spell.
I have not had time yet but I was also thinking of another possible benefit. I have a humidifier in my return trunk and I cannot run the blower enough to raise the humidity in the house. With the pump shutting down when the boiler temps start falling off and the blower still running, that should help raise my humidity levels in the house don't you think? Still not sure on wiring, I would need to run a t-stat wire to the boiler aquastat also to tell when to turn the pump on when there is a call for heat?
Just an observation, I have not heard the propane fire light in over a week. Temps have been dropping and winds have been picking up all week so I'm really happy about that. Checked boiler after a heat call this morning and was at 174 so that is a great thing also. I may pull the lid off the thing this weekend and sweep the fly ash out real quick without killing the fire.....want to clean the power vent fan also. Been running about a month this week. Don't want to fall behind this year!


 
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Post by nepacoal » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:16 am

Edited to clarify confusing and incorrect thermostat wire comment i made...

No need for that end switch wire between the taco and aquastat, you would now need 14 or 16 awg (120V) running between the Zc Zr terminals and the taco controller. Taco shows the alternate wiring in their instructions. Hopefully Rob will chime in... He seems to know these aquastats very well.
Last edited by nepacoal on Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:47 am, edited 3 times in total.

 
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swyman
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Post by swyman » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:24 am

nepacoal wrote:
Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:16 am
I thought you already ran the thermostat wire trying to get it to fire at the start of the call for heat (and it didn't work since you were running off the high limit). That same thermostat wire is still good but you would now need 14 or 16 awg (120V) running between the Zc Zr terminals and the taco controller. Taco shows the alternate wiring in their instructions. Hopefully Rob will chime in... He seems to know these aqustats very well.
Thanks, didn't know that would work with the t-stat wire. I actually disconnected it.... still there though. I was under the assumption that I needed to wire the pump directly to the aquastat... so I can leave it hooked to the Taco controller like it is but confused how that ties in. Right now the relay makes the circuit to turn on the pump...would i need to disconnect that t-stat wire from the relay?
"Pump" is just easier to type than circulator for the grammar Nazi's

 
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Post by nepacoal » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:31 am

sorry, I confused The issue with The thermostat wire comment. The taco still controls the pumps and has the thermostat connected to it. The Zc Zr wiring from the aquastat is what allows the taco to operate normally in the Lo limit. Take a close look at the alternate wiring in the taco instructions. There is no longer a need to run that end switch wire. The Zc Zr terminals allow it to work off the lo limit.

 
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Post by swyman » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 10:28 am

nepacoal wrote:
Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:31 am
sorry, I confused The issue with The thermostat wire comment. The taco still controls the pumps and has the thermostat connected to it. The Zc Zr wiring from the aquastat is what allows the taco to operate normally in the Lo limit. Take a close look at the alternate wiring in the taco instructions. There is no longer a need to run that end switch wire. The Zc Zr terminals allow it to work off the lo limit.
Thank you, Shane

 
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 10:31 am

nepacoal wrote:
Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:16 am

No need for that end switch wire between the taco and aquastat, you would now need 14 or 16 awg (120V) running between the Zc Zr terminals and the taco controller. Taco shows the alternate wiring in their instructions. Hopefully Rob will chime in... He seems to know these aquastats very well.
I thought the goal was to bring the boiler up to the high limit whenever there is a heat call? A thermostat wire between the two controls is a simple way to achieve that.

Typically you wire the zone relays off the ZC/ZR terminals in the aqustat if you are using a tankless coil and do not want the zones to drag the boiler down to a low temperature.

 
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Post by lsayre » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 10:49 am

I think Rob's instructions to wire the XX (end switch) terminals of the Taco Zone Valve Controller to the TT switch on the Hydrostat was the correct advice. We are talking 24V DC here, and we don't want to let out the magic smoke.

Swyman, did you figure out the length of your piping run and the primary ID of your piping yet? What circulator is being used? I'm OK with a run length ballpark.


 
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Post by nepacoal » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 1:48 pm

Per the taco manuals, when using the alternate wiring with Zc and Zr:

Operation: When any thermostat calls for heat, the boiler is given a signal to start. The appropriate circulator is energized only when the boiler temperature is above the set low limit.

This should start the boiler as well as use the lo limit to control the pumps, right... Using the low limit would allow a slow reacting coal boiler the time to ramp up without the propane turning on every time.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 2:19 pm

nepacoal wrote:
Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 1:48 pm
Per the taco manuals, when using the alternate wiring with Zc and Zr:

Operation: When any thermostat calls for heat, the boiler is given a signal to start. The appropriate circulator is energized only when the boiler temperature is above the set low limit.

This should start the boiler as well as use the lo limit to control the pumps, right... Using the low limit would allow a slow reacting coal boiler the time to ramp up without the propane turning on every time.
The part in bold font is true for either wiring scenario - what is different is the part I underlined.

 
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Post by swyman » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 2:50 pm

nepacoal wrote:
Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 1:48 pm
Per the taco manuals, when using the alternate wiring with Zc and Zr:

Operation: When any thermostat calls for heat, the boiler is given a signal to start. The appropriate circulator is energized only when the boiler temperature is above the set low limit.

This should start the boiler as well as use the lo limit to control the pumps, right... Using the low limit would allow a slow reacting coal boiler the time to ramp up without the propane turning on every time.
This is exactly what needs to be accomplished.

 
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Post by swyman » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 2:52 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 2:19 pm
The part in bold font is true for either wiring scenario - what is different is the part I underlined.
What is defined as "The appropriate circulator"? Would that be my priority circulator?

 
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Post by nepacoal » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 4:41 pm

Whichever ones are calling for heat... Or in your case the pump on the priority zone if it is calling.

 
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Post by lsayre » Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 1:11 pm

swyman, for your 220 ft. run to the out-building, is that distance roughly the entire loop length? Is your 1" underground leg standard 1" PEX or PEX-AL-PEX (I'm interested in this since they have different ID's)? What circulator brand and model do you have servicing this leg? Do you have a nominal Delta-T measurement for this leg?

 
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Post by swyman » Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 2:20 pm

lsayre wrote:
Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 1:11 pm
swyman, for your 220 ft. run to the out-building, is that distance roughly the entire loop length? Is your 1" underground leg standard 1" PEX or PEX-AL-PEX (I'm interested in this since they have different ID's)? What circulator brand and model do you have servicing this leg? Do you have a nominal Delta-T measurement for this leg?
Entire loop length would be about another 20' so total would be around 480'... all 1"PEX. The underground stuff is all Central Boiler's ThermalPex. All 3 circulators are Grundfos 15-58 3 speed units. My Delta T on this leg was about 5 degrees (without a heat call) BUT I had a vault by the pool where this line ran into where I added valves to heat pool which I never did. I just bought a 5' piece of ThermalPex and 2 splice kits as I am removing this vault and sealing this up. The snow would melt off the vault lid which is why I am eliminating it and had to be my heat loss. Most of the time however I did not run the circulator last year as this run would circulate naturally without any assistance. My take was when I didn't need the heat, my losses should be at a minimum since it was flowing by itself? I did run it when it got extremely cold however. I need to get this wrapped up asap, have some really cold weather coming.

 
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Post by lsayre » Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 3:24 pm

Is the ID = 0.863" for 1" ThermoPex?

I'd be hard pressed to see how you could move more than about 37,500 BTUH over a distance of 480 feet through that ID of pipe with a single 15-58 circulator while maintaining a 20 degree Delta-T. Or 75, 000 BTUH for the case of a 40 degree Delta-T.

With two of these circulators in series you might get up to 75,000 BTUH at 20 degrees of Delta-T.


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