"We Can Buy New Renewables Cheaper Than Existing Fossil Fuels"
Heat is low grade energy and electric is a higher grade , so coal is good for home
heating and hot water , but heat cannot run appliances we use today.
Direct conversion of coal is not possible so we upgrade the form of energy to
heat we need but at a loss of part of the energy.
That is why heating with electric resistive heaters is so expensive. You are turning
fuel to electric and then using it as heat that you already had a loss on.
Coal has many other costs associated with it besides it BTU content.
Shipping,moving around in the yard,storage , waste disposal all add costs.
BigBarney
heating and hot water , but heat cannot run appliances we use today.
Direct conversion of coal is not possible so we upgrade the form of energy to
heat we need but at a loss of part of the energy.
That is why heating with electric resistive heaters is so expensive. You are turning
fuel to electric and then using it as heat that you already had a loss on.
Coal has many other costs associated with it besides it BTU content.
Shipping,moving around in the yard,storage , waste disposal all add costs.
BigBarney
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Indeed electricity is a costly form of energy and to use that for transportation is just silly.
Can you imagine that as we extract hydrocarbons from the ground be it the lighter fractions (NG) that we purify and pump to power stations to make electricity. Or the heavier fractions that makes gas and diesel etc.etc. Here is the incredible stupidity ... we use these fractions to make steam to make electricity at about 30% efficiency. We then transmit it to the site of use over the grid hence losing another 30% at least. Can you imagine that people then take this electricity, store into batteries with more losses and travel down the road with it and somehow think this is the future.
Here is a brilliant idea. Take those hydrocarbons directly and use it in your vehicle directly. This would be much more efficient avoiding those many losses. Feel free to patent this idea to make your fortunes.
As my grandma said .. "None so queer as folk"
I ignore solar as despite incredible expenditures and govt grants it is still a second order energy source. NG and coal is where it is at. Shame we can't burn coal in our cars.
Can you imagine that as we extract hydrocarbons from the ground be it the lighter fractions (NG) that we purify and pump to power stations to make electricity. Or the heavier fractions that makes gas and diesel etc.etc. Here is the incredible stupidity ... we use these fractions to make steam to make electricity at about 30% efficiency. We then transmit it to the site of use over the grid hence losing another 30% at least. Can you imagine that people then take this electricity, store into batteries with more losses and travel down the road with it and somehow think this is the future.
Here is a brilliant idea. Take those hydrocarbons directly and use it in your vehicle directly. This would be much more efficient avoiding those many losses. Feel free to patent this idea to make your fortunes.
As my grandma said .. "None so queer as folk"
I ignore solar as despite incredible expenditures and govt grants it is still a second order energy source. NG and coal is where it is at. Shame we can't burn coal in our cars.
- lsayre
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The problem with that is internal combustion engines are also only between 25% and 33% efficient. Formula 1 cars have topped 50% ICE efficiency, so significant improvement assuredly can be achieved, but at a very high cost.
Electric motors are between 90% and 98% efficient, with most at the lower end of this scale.
Electric motors are between 90% and 98% efficient, with most at the lower end of this scale.
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Of course, but if you lost 60% getting it to the car what have you gained with this EV nonsense.
- lsayre
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I agree, so you lop off the inefficiencies of the EV's electric motor(s) and also the inefficiency associated with the EV's battery bank, and it is down to 25-30% efficient, just like an ICE. So unless electricity is made 100% from renewables you might as well just burn fuel in your vehicle rather than having an electric power company burn it. I'm happy with a 450 mile range and gas stations everywhere I go.coalnewbie wrote: ↑Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 7:41 amOf course, but if you lost 60% getting it to the car what have you gained with this EV nonsense.
I just heard on the radio where Ohio's two nuclear power plants along Lake Erie are slated to be decommissioned and converted over to natural gas. A result of NG being plentiful around here due to fracking.
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I am happy for you. More for coal but less for NG.A result of NG being plentiful around here due to fracking.
You got the right answer by using onsite renewable energy from
the sun you make an electric car unbeatable, Eliminate the loss in
transmission and production and you got it. Only the battery loss
of ~10% is good to go.
No petrol car can compete at 25% efficiency.
Canada at 8% electric ,Norway at~55%+ ,we are on the way, only
need more car brands to sell and the share will rise rapidly.
BigBarney
the sun you make an electric car unbeatable, Eliminate the loss in
transmission and production and you got it. Only the battery loss
of ~10% is good to go.
No petrol car can compete at 25% efficiency.
Canada at 8% electric ,Norway at~55%+ ,we are on the way, only
need more car brands to sell and the share will rise rapidly.
BigBarney
- Sunny Boy
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And once it leaves the power plant, so does transmitting electric power. Maintaining/repairing the poles and lines, the right of ways, servicing/replacing transformers, and fleets of special expensive service trucks and trained union staff, and all other lines and equipment right up to including your electric meter. Then there's the costs of their massive billing, collections, customer service, and PR departments.BigBarney wrote: ↑Tue. Nov. 06, 2018 4:59 pmHeat is low grade energy and electric is a higher grade , so coal is good for home
heating and hot water , but heat cannot run appliances we use today.
Direct conversion of coal is not possible so we upgrade the form of energy to
heat we need but at a loss of part of the energy.
That is why heating with electric resistive heaters is so expensive. You are turning
fuel to electric and then using it as heat that you already had a loss on.
Coal has many other costs associated with it besides it BTU content.
Shipping,moving around in the yard,storage , waste disposal all add costs.
BigBarney
And if it wasn't for the State Power Authority's oversite and rate control we'd be paying far more for electricity.
Back in the late 70's and 80's, LILCO (Long Island Lighting Company) with the then highest rates in the nation (16 cents/KWH by 1990), tried to cut back on their maintenance costs to please their share holders. When hurricane Gloria hit long Island in 1985, the damage was made much worse because of their years of cutting back the cost of tree trimming near power lines. The resulting backlash lead to the breakup of LILCO's control of all the electric and gas business of Long Island, which was split-up and handed over to other companies.
Paul
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and just how big will that solar field have to be for an average commuter to keep his EV going. Soooo stupid.You got the right answer by using onsite renewable energy from
the sun you make an electric car unbeatable, Eliminate the loss in
transmission and production and you got it. Only the battery loss
of ~10% is good to go.
- Sunny Boy
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And, in our northern climates where the sun's angle is lower, so less available solar wattage per square foot, and many months of cloudy weather and snow fall per year.coalnewbie wrote: ↑Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 1:57 pmand just how big will that solar field have to be for an average commuter to keep his EV going. Soooo stupid.
Yeah, that's like the electric version of the gas shortage years.
Paul
- franpipeman
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My sons array make his greatest solar production in February 45kwh per day . the air is cleaner and no leaves on tree . Granted the day is shorter but snow reflects on the panels and makes production greater
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Just paid electric bill to West Penn Power, a First Energy Company. Domestic service price is 5.60 cents per KWH all in. I like electric better than gas, don't need to worry when my house will explode. Ideally we would all get our power from hydro-electric plants.
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Nooooooo!!!! You beast! Just imagine the plight of the Salmon, the Alewives, the Smelt, and other androgynous fish! The Caribou can't migrate across the flooded plains! The Native settlements flooded and lost! Everyone knows dams are built to fail!!!! Worship the sun and cover half the US with panels and forget this water vision!Ideally we would all get our power from hydro-electric plants.
Top
Kevin
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Surely you jest, I know where Harrison gets its power and fairly certain local Caribou herd wasn't disturbed.KLook wrote: ↑Wed. Nov. 21, 2018 6:41 pmNooooooo!!!! You beast! Just imagine the plight of the Salmon, the Alewives, the Smelt, and other androgynous fish! The Caribou can't migrate across the flooded plains! The Native settlements flooded and lost! Everyone knows dams are built to fail!!!! Worship the sun and cover half the US with panels and forget this water vision!
Kevin
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Really? How do you know what migrating animal was disrupted by the flooding of the Tenn? Miles of old villages and Indian settlements buried under water!Surely you jest, I know where Harrison gets its power and fairly certain local Caribou herd wasn't disturbed.
Top
Jesting of course....the dams were really built because of flood control, Chattanooga was flooded many times and one of those events caused a massive Cholera outbreak. Generating electricity was a side benefit. Plus the towers of the Sequoia Nucy plant are almost in sight from my back deck. That is the real power.
Kevin