Converting to propane

David... wrote: ↑

Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 10:08 am

The difference is one is home made. The others are engineered systems.

David

I'm looking for other than the physical obvious, such as to related to the combustion process and all it's byproducts.

McGiever wrote: ↑

Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 9:57 am

Aside from being propane and w/o a "fail safe" how is this different than Momma cooking a turkey in the oven?
Or a "Ventless" propane fireplace?

Mommas turkey only takes a few hours? Is this a trick question?

I see your point that the combustion byproducts are the same and on the coldest days we try to cook with the oven & cooktop because it adds btu's to the house. But the oven shuts down between calls for heat and the cooktop burner times are not that long, certainly less than an hour. And the exhaust fan in the kitchen gets used a lot while cooking. To me it comes down to the length of time its in use (20min / lb). I would not run either oven or cooktop as a heat source.

I do not like the ventless units for the reasons mentioned above, CO, CO2, moisture. I had a vented NG wall unit in my attic bedroom growing up, simple thru the wall vent, no exhaust fan, it worked very well.

If the flue pipe was connected (even just through the wall) and you could make sure it wasn't reverse drafted when firing up, with a safety ignition valve I could see myself doing something like this if i lived in an area without coal access where the heat load wasn't too much.

Alright, Lee, Now for the engineered ventless fireplace...???

Ventless.....bad idea in my opinion no matter what decorating committees want and building codes allow.

Trying to understand ventless as they are sold widely and very popular...what makes them bad other than 'opinions'???

If you look up the chemical formula of burning propane as cleanly as possible (not always doable), so that there's no carbon monoxide, it still uses up a lot of oxygen while producing carbon dioxide and water vapor.

So your lowering the room's oxygen level and increasing the carbon dioxide level. That's why ventless systems have to have oxygen sensors that can shut them down when the oxygen content of the room air gets below a certain point.

However, there are many complaints about people with ventless heaters having ill effects well before the heaters ever reach that shutdown point.

The industry selling ventless heaters mostly ignores those complaints.

Just like the companies selling "clean burning" kerosene heaters did back in the 1970's, until there were so many people getting sick that some areas outlawed kero heaters. Suffolk County on Long Island was one of the first to outlaw them.

Paul

I suppose 'bad' and/or 'good' for that matter are both opinions. The downside(s) of burning a ventless heating appliance are rather obvious, not opinions, and have been stated: CO2 and Moisture. One may argue that modifying a heating appliance with a non UL listed device could also be considered a 'bad' option, not opinion. If the enduser is comfortable with the above risks then there is no problem.

Some ventless code reference. http://www.ventless-gas-fireplaces.com/ventless_p ... ation.html

McGiever wrote: ↑

Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 9:57 am

Aside from being propane and w/o a "fail safe" how is this different than Momma cooking a turkey in the oven?
Or a "Ventless" propane fireplace?

The difference is the turkey cooks in a few hours, not run steadily day after day.

Burn anything unvented and it will effect in a bad way the air you breath. Might take a long time to kill you, but sicken you it will.

I for 1 will NEVER have any propane anything in my house again....

In the early to mid 80's , the old gas range we were using ,developed a propane leak, i got terribly sick that lasted many weeks.... we found the leak & replaced the range with an electric unit.
A few yrs. later... working in construction... a vertical torpedo heater fueled by propane was used to heat the enclosed but under construction house we were working on inside..... i got deadly sick.

I can no longer be indoors when propane is used ventless... i even stay away from outdoor grills when they are cooking ,at least stand so the wind will blow the fumes away from me.

I may be an extreme case... but it can't be good to breathe propane exhaust,no matter what they call it.

McGiever wrote: ↑

Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 10:29 am

Alright, Lee, Now for the engineered ventless fireplace...???

I'd just be afraid of improper combustion. But, that's just my opinion

Remember how popular kerosene heaters were?

But then Consumer Reports tested them and documented the pollution. That pretty much killed them.

The same applies to any unvented heater.

I have kerosene heaters and enjoy them. They are still available and widely used. CO helps me sleep at night.

David

David... wrote: ↑

Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 2:12 pm

I have kerosene heaters and enjoy them. They are still available and widely used. CO helps me sleep at night.

David

I like them too. With well designed air handling burners there is little CO unless turned too high, but there are other pollutants like nitrogen oxide.