Fuel oil used for electricity during the cold snap

cabinover
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Post By: cabinover » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 5:42 am

This was posted on the VFDA (Vermont Fuel Dealers Assn.) email that I receive. Thought you guys might find it interesting. I can't seem to link to anything on their website so here is the paragraph...

"Distillate to the Rescue Fuel dealers are providing both heat and electricity to the Northeast this winter. Heating oil has been critical to ensuring the electric grid has enough power, according to ISO-NE. New England power generators (including peaking plants in Vermont) used 84 million gallons of heating oil between December 25th and January 9th. This is about the same amount of residential heating oil sold in Vermont during an entire year. That's right. New England electric utilities needed a year's supply of Vermont's heating oil to ensure we had enough electricity FOR TWO WEEKS. On some days this winter, as much as one-third of the region's power was generated from heating oil. Now Congress wants to know more. NEFI reports that the Senate Energy Committee recently held a hearing to examine the impact of recent weather events on the power system in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic. "


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Post By: Rob R. » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 6:03 am

I guess it is a good thing the fuel was available and those plants are still ready for the call to action. I am curious if these plants normally run on NG and had to switch to fuel.

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Post By: coalnewbie » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 8:08 am

So those little VT eco lunies, who were prattling and preaning about how they have gone solar and put in 120MW of solar power are now being exposed. In these dark dismal days all they have got is a load of panels that need the ice cleaning off and damage repaired and enough power to run their cell phones. Plenty of spare juice to run those electric cars. :D I have posted before on this one. You can't fix stupidity. The real tragedy is the scenery damage to that beautiful state.

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warminmn
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Post By: warminmn » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 9:34 am

Yep, they try to get homeowners to cut their electric use, then they make electric cars which require fuel oil to be used to generate it. Makes sense to somebody, not me.

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Post By: coalnewbie » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 10:25 am

Yes, but do you look cool when you make your u tube video of the $100,000 of stuff you bought to get it going. However, the cocktail set is getting bored as a lot of them have this c rap also. We should be paying attention to the guy that bought an old WM for next to nothing and his house is at 75* in all conditions for much less than the interest payments on the solar stuff..

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 10:54 am

The backup oil generation did exactly what it is supposed to.

The NE area is short of base capacity so in times of stress they

are reliant on oil , because of a shortage of natural gas .

There are arguments for more natural gas pipelines , but there

is a lot of resistance .

The pjm power grid is where you buy or sell electric . The companies

balance their cost of production to the wholesale price and make

determinations on whether to be a buyer or seller. A good read to

understand this is here....


http://www.pjm.com/about-pjm/learning-center/pric ... icker.aspx




BigBarney

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Post By: McGiever » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 11:33 am

Does not this same event occur for summertime A/C peaks?

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Post By: BigBarney » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 12:28 pm

Yes...

If you have time to watch this video it will explain the summer peak

which is larger than the winter peak. It explains the pricing and the

adjustments to supply and how their added by the utilities .





It talks about the same type of shortfall in 2014 in New England.

This summer peak can be supplied with solar panels and is very

economical when the power value spikes to large value.

The power cost in the last hour has gone up by $5-6 from 22/KWHr

to 27-28 a 5/25= 20% increase , the power price could go up by many

multiples on high demand days. PJM is the largest grid trader in the

world so it is the most stable. I have seen electric at 550/KWHr which

is 20 times the current rate. You can click on the companies in the

previous post to see the current rate and it will move with demand.





BigBarney


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Post By: coalnewbie » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 12:37 pm

Yawn, so BB, this follows the laws of supply and demand. That can be distorted in the short term by pols seeking votes but always applies in the long term. So solar/wind is useless in the dips. Gas and oil are short as is nuclear. Hmm, so let's get those electric cars off the road and import more gasoline that there is plenty of. Finally, open more coal power stations. See how easy solutions are when your not blind.

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Post By: McGiever » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 12:46 pm

Hearing lately that the US is now a EXPORTER of oil bases fuels...not Importer, if that matters any.
I doubt that we stopped importing though. Big Oil Co. would get upset.

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 12:49 pm

Get more electric cars on the road and use that low cost electric at

night.


If we import gasoline the price at the pump will go up , we have

enough oil , but no company would build new refinery capacity

now except for small upgrades. The last large refinery was built

in 1977 , over 40 years ago,that's how far forward they look at

demand. In total in 40+ years they barely equaled that 200,000

barrel refinery.


BigBarney

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Post By: coalnewbie » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 1:11 pm

BB the biggest gas refinery in the world is in India and they are welcome to the pollution. Supertankers of gas are in the ocean right now and arbitrage houses hovering over computers will anticipate demand and leap if a fraction of a cent more can be made somewhere else.. Gasoline is ubiquitous and there is plenty of it. Not a problem. With electricity it is not so simple.

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 1:32 pm

If you watch the videos you will understand.

Electric is more local because of transmission ability.

Some electricity in NY comes from Ontario Hydro when it

is economical , utilities buy when less than their costs ,

the three grids in the US have limited ability

to interconnect ,and for safety they are mostly not connected.


BigBarney

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Post By: franco b » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 1:45 pm

Using heating oil seems to me not true. All large heating plants in my experience use heavy no. 6 oil, what is left of crude after refining.

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Post By: windyhill4.2 » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 1:46 pm

My coal stove & my coal boiler are savings lots of energy... my stove uses absolutely no electric & my boiler uses very marginal electric to heat 3 buildings & heat hot water for 2 houses.
By burning coal,i have done more than my share of keeping the electrical demand on the power grid low.


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