Frost in Attic After Installing Coal Stove in Basement

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 6:35 am

grumpy wrote:
Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 7:01 pm
also vapor barrier should be installed..
AFAIK you are not supposed to put a vapor barrier in the attic. That moisture is going to make it's way through the drywall or whatever, it needs to wick through the insulation.


 
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Post by titleist1 » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 8:03 am

Since a couple things changed over the summer, i would start there....

I am curious if the roof had a ridge vent before the re-roofing this summer or gable vents? Maybe the new ridge vent is not allowing as much airflow as the previous venting cutting down on air exchange.

Check around the bathroom fan in the attic space to see if something got moved when the fan duct was re-routed. There might be warm moist air leaking into the attic around it.

What is the attic access and how is that sealed? Like Rob, I have a 2" foam board 'coffin' over my pull down stairs and it does a great job keeping the heat from migrating up there.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 8:14 am

That's the problem, you are getting warm, moist air from the house being pulled up into the attic. If there are no soffit vents, the ridge vent is going to pull it from the homes interior.

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 8:23 am

What IF ?? What if the roofer had laid the tar paper over the ridge,figuring to cut it b4 he installed the ridge vent.......

What IF he forgot to cut the tar paper ? :what: :o

Don't look at me like i'm a nut .... he could have forgotten. :)

OR, like titleist1 said.... check that bathroom fan vent hose... it may have come off 1 end or the other..... or, it may have torn .

 
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Post by titleist1 » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 9:11 am

windyhill4.2 wrote:
Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 8:23 am
Don't look at me like i'm a nut .... he could have forgotten. :)

OR, like titleist1 said.... check that bathroom fan vent hose... it may have come off 1 end or the other..... or, it may have torn .
People don't usually look at me.....i wonder if they are just being polite??! :baby:

I wasn't even thinking about the vent hose coming off but that could be a big issue to double check.....I was thinking they moved insulation around the fan enclosure as they messed with the hose and didn't seal the fan enclosure back up real well. I did that once a few years back.....and didn't know until i noticed the underside of the roof sheathing was real wet above the bathroom when getting out the Christmas boxes. Never told anybody else in the house...... :stfu:

 
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Post by coalkirk » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 10:05 am

CapeCoaler wrote:
Sun. Dec. 31, 2017 10:39 pm
Frost is forming because the outside of the roof is cold...
Warmth from home is moving to attic...
Warm air holds more moisture...
Inside surface of roof is the meeting point...
Frost is result...
A house built in '95 is not 'really tight' just tighter than previous building standards...
Frost in attic is proof of that...
Energy audit with blower door test will find the cause...
The heat from the basement is pooling on the second floor and causing more heat in the attic...
Look for the obvious holes to the attic and foam them...
Bath vent goes outside right?...
How is the attic vented?...
Gable vent or roof vents...
These are all excellent points and hints and where you should start. A few other things to check.
1. Do you have a humidifier operating in the home? If so where is the humidity level set?
2. Does your clothes dryer vent to the exterior? Check to make sure the vent is not blocked or disconnected.
3. Do you have aquariums?

As others have said it's happening because air from the home is leaking into the attic and as CapeCoaler said a 1995 house is not as tight as you think. Also your attic is not adequately ventilated. I'm wondering why air escaping from your living area has such a high moisture content. I'm struggling to put some humidity into my home.

 
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Post by D-frost » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 11:27 am

Brandon,
After enlarging the first pic, now knowing you have soffets, it looks like the insulation(the 1st layer under the pink) maybe blocking the soffet vent.
Just for grins: The guy that nailed the plywood, missed the rafter on the left!
Cheers


 
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Post by Hambden Bob » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 1:59 pm

Bingo ! Covered Over Soffit Vents sure would do it. Pile in the idea that Bathroom Vent fans pipework could be leaking and could be pushing moisture laden air into the attic,and Whallah ! Instant Ice Station Zebra ! Sorry,I always liked that film !

 
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Post by brandonh98 » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 2:20 pm

D-frost wrote:
Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 11:27 am
Brandon,
After enlarging the first pic, now knowing you have soffets, it looks like the insulation(the 1st layer under the pink) maybe blocking the soffet vent.
Just for grins: The guy that nailed the plywood, missed the rafter on the left!
Cheers
First of all thank you for all the replies.

So there is a cathedral ceiling. The sofit is about 20 feet away from the pink baffle you can see in the picture. Where the baffle is it is open but you are correct that the yellow insulation is touching the sheeting on the sides. The problem is their are 24" rafters and they used 16" baffles during construction. I believe this was common as i've seen videos on youtube showing it done this way. There are definitely some bays that are completely blocked and I think that the hot spots on the roof are caused by the blocked cavity. Does that make sense that a blocked cavity would cause a hot spot?

Is there a way to measure attic ventilation? I wonder if I need a combination of ridge vent and gable vent.

I fear that I will be tearing out all the attic insulation to seal for leaks and replacing it. I can image when this melts its going to be pretty wet up there.

 
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Post by D-frost » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 4:16 pm

Brandon,
Soffet vents run under the eaves from one end of the house to the other, with a vent between each rafter, allowing the outside air in and rising to the peak to exit at the ridge vent, which runs the full length of the roof. The object of this, is to keep the outside temp and the attic temp identical. Even with a cathedral ceiling, there is a space allowed for air flow. Is this attic we are looking at above a 2nd story, or 1st level above the basement? If possible, a pic of the outside of the house , on the side where this "frost" is forming, would help.

 
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Post by Qtown1835 » Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 5:53 pm

Had a similar issue with my house, much older than yours but an attic is an attic. My warm air issue was 2fold. 90%of the soffits were blocked with vermiculite and the attic steps did not have a door at the top and a bunch of the warm air was leaking up.

I ended up pulling all of the insulation out and used a shopvac to suckout all of the loose insulation stuffed in the eaves. Then installed new baffels and blew in new atticat insulation. You will be surprised where the air can leak into the attic. Like someone mentioned earlier the fiberglass acts like a big airfilter. When you remove some insulation you will be able to see where the air is migrating thru the insualtion as it will be gray/black in color.

I also taped off all the ceiling boxes and sealed them with urethane foam. As well as the wire penetrations thru the top plates into the floor below.

I would start with the big potential sources: bathroom vents, radon vents, dryer, microwave/range hood, attic steps. Then on to smaller souces like ceiling boxes and wire penetrations.
IMAG0995.jpg

 
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Post by michaelanthony » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 7:32 am

brandonh98 wrote:
Mon. Jan. 01, 2018 1:14 am
New roof was installed this summer with all new ridge vents installed. The roofer even added a vent to the porch. The bathroom vent used to vent into the attic and I had him cut a hole to have it routed out.....................................................................................................................................................................
Hopefully the roofer cut away the sheathing at the peak for the ridge vent. Can you see the underside of the ridge vent?
Use rigid plastic piping for the bathroom vent...glued together and it won't leak. Every overhead light in the second floor creates a chase in the sill plate. I would also foam the vent pipes where they break through and any other chase, check closets etc. Lay down foil faced up in the attic and tape the joints if you can.

...a good old drafty house last xx times longer.

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 10:36 am

Yes a 'drafty house' does last longer...
When you start sealing and insulating a house you have to be careful...
where the point of condensation lies...
You do not want warm moist air to be able to reach that point...
Or else moisture will form...
Then the mold and rot begins...
That is why you want the vapor barrier against the ceiling not between layers of insulation...
As others have said foam the penetrations to the attic...
lots of little holes will add up...
Some electricians and other trades love to oversize the hole...
Plus not many were required to foam the penetrations back then...
It is a fire, infiltration and vapor issue...
He still has a moisture problem...
even if the vents are partially blocked you should not have frost in the attic...
The 16" baffles are fine in a 24" bay they just keep the insulation back...

 
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Post by lincolnmania » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 10:45 am

thanks!!
i just found the same issue tho worse.
i have frosty boards and nails and drippage, all the stuff in the attic gets damp.
i have a steel roof over hit or miss boards.
the idiot that reroofed it four years didnt use any tarpaper.....double boubble wouuld have been a better choice.
unfortunately i was in the hospital most of 2013. i did not supervise. it's a hack roof job.
and my insulation sucks (r16 with spots that are less where the wind took the insulation away.
yes i made another post about this insulation, i am going to buy ten sheets of 2" foam every month and install them, starting with ten this week. ($340 approx)

 
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Post by Qtown1835 » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 12:39 pm

lincolnmania wrote:
Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 10:45 am
thanks!!
i just found the same issue tho worse.
i have frosty boards and nails and drippage, all the stuff in the attic gets damp.
i have a steel roof over hit or miss boards.
the idiot that reroofed it four years didnt use any tarpaper.....double boubble wouuld have been a better choice.
unfortunately i was in the hospital most of 2013. i did not supervise. it's a hack roof job.
and my insulation sucks (r16 with spots that are less where the wind took the insulation away.
yes i made another post about this insulation, i am going to buy ten sheets of 2" foam every month and install them, starting with ten this week. ($340 approx)

Be careful with installation of the foam board in the attic. Any water vapor that is trapped between hot/cold will not be able to escape like it can with fiberglass. It may be a good idea to make sure you have adequate ventilation in the attic first. You need 1sqft for every 150sqft of attic balanced between intake and exhaust. All the insulation in the world wont help if the moisture has nowhere to go.


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