Homemade Coal

 
NoSmoke
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Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun. Oct. 14, 2012 7:52 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Baseburners & Antiques: Woods and Bishop Antique Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 6:01 am

I hope the moderators are kind, and leave the derogatory post made just to incite anger from people, just so that it will be an example of stupidity of trolls everywhere.

I was a child when I learned the ignorance of environmental laws when they banned CFC's in spray cans, but in reality one space mission did the same environmental damage as one year of combined CFC emissions. As far as I know we are still flying to space, but I'll be darned if graffiti sticks like it used to :-) An EPA compliant stove means nothing to me because of that.

Myself, I have a pot bellied stove so I can burn wood or coal. I would burn coal exclusively if I had a seam of coal, but instead I got 100's of acres of woods. Sadly in Maine, that wood is now worthless, so it would be nice to convert it to something useful.

Making a statement so boldly about something subjective like living room decor is so asinine that it almost defies words. My home looks like it came out of the 1930's, my wife's favorite era, and is filled with family antiques. A modern EPA, bent sheet metal wood stove, plugging up my chimney with creosote, lasting a few years before it rusts out, makes about as much sense as trolling a coal forum designed to help a region (Northeast Pa) that has a struggling economy. I might not have even put this thread on here for fear of steering people away from anthracite coal, but realized few people would actually make charcoal anyway. In short, my heart goes out to any struggling region of the country, in Maine or elsewhere.

What is interesting is, I just made a post on another forum about our kitchen range. It is propane, but made in 1917. Because it is lower in height, has bigger burners, is designed to boil vats of water for laundry washing back in the day, and other almost distinguishable features, my wife loves it more than the new kitchen stove it replaced. Newer is NOT always better.
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NoSmoke
Member
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun. Oct. 14, 2012 7:52 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Baseburners & Antiques: Woods and Bishop Antique Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 6:38 am

windyhill4.2 wrote:
Mon. Oct. 09, 2017 11:27 am
I do agree with the idea of buying a wood stove to burn the wood rather than fooling around with burying it with dirt to dig up later.
Yes it does seem silly when you put it that way. :)

There are ways to make charcoal that do not require dirt, i just did not want to get into that yet without seeing how it burns first. The method I used is the old way and was quick and easy. If it works I might build a retort, but that requires some investment and time, and I just wanted to see if it works first.

The problem right now is, all the paper mills in Maine are buying hardwood for the making of paper and no softwood. Over 3/4 of my forest is softwood, with 28% being Eastern Hemlock alone. Making charcoal means I can safely burn the softwood and sell my hardwood to the paper mills that are buying it at elevated prices.

This is a new problem for us Mainer's, as three years ago softwood was in demand and paid better prices. To put this problem in perspective, it was like a few years ago when corn prices were low, and fuel prices were high. Farmers in the mid-west were burning corn, and selling their wheat at higher prices for income. Then they stopped when corn prices rose and fuel prices dropped. That is all good, but the frustration is higher in Maine because our "crops"...trees...take 35 years to grow! For the last 100 years we have been managing our forest for softwood growth. Now we are stuck with a useless crop!

Financially this is a massive problem. I have lost 1/3 of my forest's value in the last 3 years. At $120 a cord, at 30 cords per acre, times several hundred acres...you can easily see the problem, hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially lost. My answer now is to clear my forest and put it into fields so I can raise more sheep, but while I can sell the hardwood to pay for the clearing, what to do with all the softwood? I cannot leave it in the middle of my fields.

My Great Grandfather had a Potash Factory during the Potash Gold Rush, and I thought i could use wood as a potential fertilizer. However (1) 15 acre field would require 160 cords of wood since it only has a NPK of 0-1-3. I got 120 acres of fields to maintain with at least 40 more in the next year or two. In the end it would cost more to log off that much wood then to buy commercial fertilizer!!

I just cite this stuff so people can understand the issues we are facing up here in Maine. It is not easy being a farm and trying to make all the numbers work.

 
KingCoal
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Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 10:13 am

you are doing not only the right and reasonable thing but a darn sight more and a better job of it than many others would in your place.

there's always nerdowell donothin's down at the cafe assuring one another it ain't worth the trouble to get up and try something else.

you've got a good head on your shoulders and a fine companion and helper. you may have to let some timber stand, work less open ground, tend a few less stock OR go heavy the other way but i'm seeing you finishing well.

finishing well is the target my friend, the rest is just the road there. sometimes we get to blaze our own trail sometimes we have to follow an established path, it's how we do what we do along the way that matters.

like Red Green says, "keep your stick on the ice, we're all pulling for ya "

steve

 
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windyhill4.2
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Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 11:15 am

NoSmoke wrote:
Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 6:38 am
windyhill4.2 wrote:
Mon. Oct. 09, 2017 11:27 am
I do agree with the idea of buying a wood stove to burn the wood rather than fooling around with burying it with dirt to dig up later.
Yes it does seem silly when you put it that way. :)
I am very happy that you were not offended by what i said,but found some humor in it. I was not trying to offend,i just remember how hard we used to work with the firewood & the thought of burying it in dirt & then dig it up later just makes me shudder...
We burned lots of yellow pine in our Schrader indoor wood stove,but we had a "Magic Heat" unit in the smoke pipe that cooled the exhaust enough to cause the creosote to form on the tubes of the unit rather than in the chimney. We never had to worry about cleaning our chimney,just the tubes on the unit. This unit had a rod that we could push & pull which slid a plate back & forth on the tubes to cut the creosote off. If the creosote built up too thick for the plate to move,we just threw paper in the fire,it would rise up to the tubes & set the creosote on fire.

Meanwhile ........ I would advise both you & Pauliewog to wear blinders & avoid direct visual with those ugly heaps of metal that are considered stoves....... (smile)..... nah !! roflol....

 
NoSmoke
Member
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun. Oct. 14, 2012 7:52 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Baseburners & Antiques: Woods and Bishop Antique Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 3:26 pm

KingCoal wrote:
Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 10:13 am
you've got a good head on your shoulders and a fine companion and helper. you may have to let some timber stand, work less open ground, tend a few less stock OR go heavy the other way but i'm seeing you finishing well.
You know more than you realize my friend.

Back in 2011 I made a mistake, keeping my sheep on a pasture too long waiting for the sheep shearer to come, then putting hungry sheep on a pasture just teeming with grass. That caused them to bloat and the next morning I awoke to 20 dead breeding stock ewes. It was a devastating blow, and I just wanted to give up.

So I prayed, and while I do not claim to have some special connection with God, I am just a sinner saved by grace like everyone else, for whatever reason he spoke and in this quiet voice said,"Stay with sheep."

So that is what Katie and I do. We just figure if the Great I Am, who knows the future, and is sovereign, says sheep is in our best interest, then that is what we will do. Now I am not saying we will be big sheep farmers, nor wealthy ones, but we can take rest in knowing we do not need to put a lot of thought into growing potatoes, or dairy cows, or raising ostrich, for whatever reason God wants us to have faith in him and stick with sheep.

That does not mean every farmer needs sheep, as they need to do as God leads them, but for Katie and I, we are to raise sheep. So that is our end goal, but the difficult part is not knowing what lies in the middle, and while we know that it takes faith, it is not always easy.

Not to whine, nor do I think this is a mid-life crisis, but my health issues are not helping. I got a hot date with a surgeon on Friday so we will see how that transpires. I am hoping I will get some vigor back as I am always so fatigued, and a farmer cannot have that.

 
NoSmoke
Member
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun. Oct. 14, 2012 7:52 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Baseburners & Antiques: Woods and Bishop Antique Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 3:52 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:
Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 11:15 am
NoSmoke wrote:
Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 6:38 am


Yes it does seem silly when you put it that way. :)
I am very happy that you were not offended by what i said,but found some humor in it. I was not trying to offend,i just remember how hard we used to work with the firewood & the thought of burying it in dirt & then dig it up later just makes me shudder...
We burned lots of yellow pine in our Schrader indoor wood stove,but we had a "Magic Heat" unit in the smoke pipe that cooled the exhaust enough to cause the creosote to form on the tubes of the unit rather than in the chimney. We never had to worry about cleaning our chimney,just the tubes on the unit. This unit had a rod that we could push & pull which slid a plate back & forth on the tubes to cut the creosote off. If the creosote built up too thick for the plate to move,we just threw paper in the fire,it would rise up to the tubes & set the creosote on fire.

Meanwhile ........ I would advise both you & Pauliewog to wear blinders & avoid direct visual with those ugly heaps of metal that are considered stoves....... (smile)..... nah !! roflol....
No I was not offended at all.

I grew up doing firewood and quickly learned to hate it! My Grandparents were the most self-sufficient people I know, and they burned a LOT of wood. 10 cord for their kitchen stove. 5 cord for their basement stove and then 10 cord for their greenhouses. 25 stinking cords of wood per year...every year, and that did not include the 12 cords for my father. jeesh!!

It was honestly a constant thing because whether felling or burning it, we were always one step in the process.

And we were not smart about it either: Fell the tree. Limb it. Cut it into 4 foot sections and haul it out on a trailer. Unload it. Then cut it on a cord wood saw. Then split it. Then put it on a trailer and haul it to the woodshed, basement, or greenhouse. Then stack it...

Then at age 19 or so someone gave me a Surdiac coal stove that could only burn coal. It was the best gift ever! Heat without all the work!

Today I am a bit more fortunate, I have invested in forestry equipment because we are part of the National Tree Farm System and I am a Certified Logger, so getting wood out is not quite so bad. Bulldozers, skidders and log loaders make the job easier, but I still have no desire to put up 37 cord of fire wood per year. NONE!

Some years I have cut tree length wood and used the money to buy coal, and some years I have done the same with propane, but while tree length wood is a lot less work, the lower cost means cutting 3 times as much of it. This year I messed around and got 6.5 cords of firewood in the woodshed, and only need 4 cords or so, so i am happy. I would like to have 2 ton of coal and then I would relax knowing I could easily skate through winter.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Tue. Oct. 10, 2017 5:47 pm

If you wish to burn firewood, a gassification boiler is the way to go if you want to utilize your central heating system. My neighbor has a Wood-Gun, it works excellent.

Another friend of mine has a Hearthstone woodstove with secondary air. It weighs a LOT and burns very clean. No comparison to the smoke monster stoves of the 70's that everyone remembers.


 
NoSmoke
Member
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun. Oct. 14, 2012 7:52 pm
Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Baseburners & Antiques: Woods and Bishop Antique Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Wed. Oct. 11, 2017 6:33 am

True, but the problem is the return on investment.

My home is super-insulated so it costs me $1800 to heat this large home via strictly propane. OBviously that is $1800 more than I want to pay, so burning wood would get even that cost down. I looked into a indoor gasification boiler, but they were $7000!! yes it would be the sheeps baaa, but the return on investment for that would be so long over that of burning propane, that by the time I reached that point, the stove would be junk and I would have to buy another. These are the words of the wood stove seller! He literally told me, just buy more propane.

So I went in a different direction, I found a New Yorker WC-90 on sale for $700, 10% of the gasification boiler. That would let me burn wood/coal and uses my homes 100% radiant floor heating system, BUT Katie is scared to death that it will blow up and so we have never fully hooked it up. So it sits.

But here is the kicker; I just got an antique pot bellied stove, rebuilt it and hooked it up for $110. The return on that is two weeks. Burning wood I can simmer along at 80 degrees and with coal I can simmer along at 90 degrees.

Again I know this site overall is to promote Northeast Pa Anthracite Coal, and I would never dissuade anyone from buying coal from that region, such is my respect for struggling regions of the country trying to maximize their resources. But at the same time, I love burning coal, and charcoal has many of the same properties. What if there was a way to use what I do have (wood) as a coal equivalent?

It is an interesting experiment. If I get some time today I might extract my charcoal. Its been cooling for three days underground.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Oct. 11, 2017 9:00 am

Those New Yorker boilers are terrible wood burners. You would probably plug the chimney in 30 days.

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Oct. 11, 2017 12:19 pm

I like what noSmoke is doing. By converting the basic property of the wood fuel it becomes far cleaner and more practical. The trick is to do it with less work.

Gasification of wood boilers or stoves can only ever be partially successful since the gas phase overwhelms the ability to absorb the heat produced. Feeding little and often is still the best and most efficient way to burn wood. This is just what wood pellet stoves do.

 
coalnewbie
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Post by coalnewbie » Wed. Oct. 11, 2017 3:21 pm

Gasification of wood boilers or stoves can only ever be partially successful since the gas phase overwhelms the ability to absorb the heat produced. Feeding little and often is still the best and most efficient way to burn wood. This is just what wood pellet stoves do.
Such a smart man but those pellets need to be made of hard wood not softwood and cow manure. Even then they were a pain in the a## and I gave up. NS, I wish you well at the doctors office but my position is worse ... it's called old age and you can't beat that one. I am in awe of your land management and I know you will beat this.

Just a little side bar here, I liked to burn Kingsford charcoal briquettes at the start of winter. I have an old unlined chimney that really needs rebuilding so despite the issues I put in a 316 SS liner. I am ripping that out now to make room for a new system. The point is that those briquettes are now made from almond husks and I am pulling out a ton of black crap for comparatively few fires. I already needed a sweep to come - more expense. I am done with that one to. So mr broken down ol' fart here can only burn coal as I have gotta have no problems.

Of course, if you were really stupid you could burn grass. I just might know where there is a million dollar machine built from my taxes reeeaaallly cheap. Another Obummer winner.

https://hvgenergy.wordpress.com/

 
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hotblast1357
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Post by hotblast1357 » Wed. Oct. 11, 2017 5:08 pm

What’s so dangerous about the New Yorker that it will blow up that is not dangerous with the propane boiler??

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Oct. 11, 2017 5:12 pm

I enjoyed watching again the link you provided for the grass pellets. As you predicted several years ago it seems dead in the water.

I guess when you factor in the costs of collection and production, savings are not what was anticipated.

My comment on wood pellets was only about combustion efficiency as opposed to other ways of burning wood.

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Oct. 11, 2017 5:18 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:
Wed. Oct. 11, 2017 5:08 pm
What’s so dangerous about the New Yorker that it will blow up that is not dangerous with the propane boiler??
Propane or oil shuts off promptly when a control commands it to. With a boiler burning wood, the control nor longer can do that and pressures can rise dangerously in a pressurized system. It is probably why outdoor wood boilers are not pressurized or sealed systems.

 
coalnewbie
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Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Post by coalnewbie » Wed. Oct. 11, 2017 5:38 pm

Here is the sequel video made by the funniest man on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFBiHG_KcK0


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