Anyone else holding off on burning due to price?

ASea · Post by **ASea** » Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 11:20 am

jdode wrote: ↑
Tue. Nov. 08, 2022 9:57 pm
I'm going over to my 3 year old post, regarding a hunt for a wood/coal stove. I don't want to hijack this thread. Posting pics of the possibilities over there.

Post a link to the thread

pintoplumber · Post by **pintoplumber** » Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 6:31 pm

waytomany?s wrote: ↑
Tue. Nov. 08, 2022 9:20 pm

I don't see nat gas ever being shut down unless something catastrophic happens. You will still have pressure for quite a while. You can't stock enough gas to last all that long.

It can happen. We built our house in the fall of 1978 and there was a shortage of gas. The lines weren’t extended to the16 houses in our part of the development. None of the 16 houses still have gas.

waytomany?s · Post by **waytomany?s** » Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 6:51 pm

pintoplumber wrote: ↑
Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 6:31 pm
It can happen. We built our house in the fall of 1978 and there was a shortage of gas. The lines weren’t extended to the16 houses in our part of the development. None of the 16 houses still have gas.

Wait, how much gas did we produce in 78? How much more infrastructure do we have 44 years later?

jdode · Post by **jdode** » Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 7:18 pm

ASea wrote: ↑
Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 11:20 am
Post a link to the thread

Choosing A Coal Burning Stove for the House

jdode · Post by **jdode** » Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 7:56 pm

waytomany?s wrote: ↑
Tue. Nov. 08, 2022 9:20 pm

I don't see nat gas ever being shut down unless something catastrophic happens. You will still have pressure for quite a while. You can't stock enough gas to last all that long.

Do natural gas plants use natural gas generators, or, diesel generators? I ask, because electric plants use diesel generators and we have a diesel fuel shortage.

waytomany?s · Post by **waytomany?s** » Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 8:20 pm

jdode wrote: ↑
Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 7:56 pm
Do natural gas plants use natural gas generators, or, diesel generators? I ask, because electric plants use diesel generators and we have a diesel fuel shortage.

Electric plants use coal, biomass, nat gas, and nuclear to produce electricity. Nuclear plants tend to use diesel generators for emergency back-up. I would assume nat gas processing facilities use electric to run. Seems as though they would use nat gas generator as backup, but who knows. Gas is sent from processing plant to big pipelines and transported to storage or end user. Big pipelines are higher pressure. Line to your house is 4 psi, I believe. Nope, 2 psi. Just checked. 15 to 60psi in the lines before that at the service regulator. No idea where that is. But that's why I said with the pressures in the lines, I believe you would have a longer timed use of nat gas vs storing gas for a generator. Nat gas doesn't go stale either.

miner33 · Post by **miner33** » Thu. Nov. 17, 2022 5:49 pm

I fired up Unit 2 (HB Smith Mills 15 five section boiler) one week ago. I'm not burning fuel oil at $5+ a gallon. I paid $380/ton bulk and though that is a lot for coal, it is still a bargain compared to oil.

I'm a coal miner, I don't mind shoveling a little coal.

Bob P., Kittanning, PA

miner33 · Post by **miner33** » Thu. Nov. 17, 2022 5:58 pm

Bituminous coal is nasty for heating your home. It has a LOT of smoke, stink, and ash. I mine the stuff for a living and I use anthracite for heating my home. Anthracite is much more convenient and a pleasure to burn compared to bituminous.

LouNY · Post by **LouNY** » Thu. Nov. 17, 2022 10:02 pm

jdode wrote: ↑
Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 7:56 pm
Do natural gas plants use natural gas generators, or, diesel generators? I ask, because electric plants use diesel generators and we have a diesel fuel shortage.

It's been 30 years since I worked in the gas compression and cleanup plants.
At that time the different plants all used various different power units for the gas compression everything from 600 rpm piston engines inline 6's, inline 8's inline 12's some of which drove compressors, some had the compressor cylinders on a common crank with the drive unit. Even some big V12's and 16's and some gas turbines running through planetary gear sets to piston compressors. Some plants had electric motors on the compressors a few 460Volt, many4160Volt and a few 13,000 volt motors.
Most of the plants using electric drives also had there own primary generators usually big gas turbines.
Those plants took the incoming well gas cleaned and dried it, then removed much of the richer hydrocarbons such as propane and various pentanes to reduce the btu of the "natural" gas to the proper value at times they even added air to the gas to bring the btu per cubic to the required value. Many of the large cross country transmission lines run in excess of 2000 psi, these also have booster plants to recompress and raise the pressure as it drops from line losses. The 40-60 psi lines are the smaller distribution lines they can be feed with almost any inlet pressure from 2000 psi down to 100 psi.

A far as a Natural gas disruption it would be very possible just look at Texas last winter. There can be booster station issues, pipeline issues. Many industrial users are on curtailment systems were homes and such have priority and they may have to quit using gas when demand is high when that occurs it wouldn't take much more for service to fail.

k-2 · Post by **k-2** » Sat. Nov. 19, 2022 11:40 am

waytomany?s wrote: ↑
Wed. Nov. 09, 2022 6:51 pm
Wait, how much gas did we produce in 78? How much more infrastructure do we have 44 years later?

If the gas supply ever gets shut down millions will be in a world of hurt. Just another good reason to keep my trusty wood stove ready. Anything is possible, I never though id be having a hard time getting coal either in the middle of coal country.

Sylvesterd101 · Post by **Sylvesterd101** » Sat. Nov. 19, 2022 12:52 pm

miner33 wrote: ↑
Thu. Nov. 17, 2022 5:58 pm
Bituminous coal is nasty for heating your home. It has a LOT of smoke, stink, and ash. I mine the stuff for a living and I use anthracite for heating my home. Anthracite is much more convenient and a pleasure to burn compared to bituminous.

ive been burning anthracite, and came into some shitty bit. i enjoy burning bit due to it being alot cheaper but im in north east pa

waytomany?s · Post by **waytomany?s** » Sat. Nov. 19, 2022 1:35 pm

k-2 wrote: ↑
Sat. Nov. 19, 2022 11:40 am
If the gas supply ever gets shut down millions will be in a world of hurt. Just another good reason to keep my trusty wood stove ready. Anything is possible, I never though id be having a hard time getting coal either in the middle of coal country.

My response was to whomever said they ran out of gas in 78. Considering gas transmission lines run at 2000 psi, it seems lines should stay pressurised for awhile if there is a power outage.

k-2 · Post by **k-2** » Sat. Nov. 19, 2022 1:39 pm

waytomany?s wrote: ↑
Sat. Nov. 19, 2022 1:35 pm
My response was to whomever said they ran out of gas in 78. Considering gas transmission lines run at 2000 psi, it seems lines should stay pressurised for awhile if there is a power outage.

I guess its not so easy to store it as a liquid at -260 degrees. Would make quite a racket if the cooing system failed. Or it somehow got ignited.

waytomany?s · Post by **waytomany?s** » Sat. Nov. 19, 2022 1:44 pm

k-2 wrote: ↑
Sat. Nov. 19, 2022 1:39 pm
I guess its not so easy to store it as a liquid at -260 degrees.

How is it stored in the caverns, like in Europe? If they regasify it from a tanker, does it just get pumped back into the cavern as a gas?

k-2 · Post by **k-2** » Sat. Nov. 19, 2022 1:47 pm

waytomany?s wrote: ↑
Sat. Nov. 19, 2022 1:44 pm
How is it stored in the caverns, like in Europe? If they regasify it from a tanker, does it just get pumped back into the cavern as a gas?

I would assume its not kept as a liquid for long periods. But is the cavern air tight or gas tight?