Installing DS 1100 Aqua Gem and gravity flow radiant floor heat.

 
Chancey P.
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Post by Chancey P. » Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 11:49 am

I am new to the form, and would like input on installing a DS 1100 Aqua Gem boiler and gravity flow radiant floor heat. The house is 24' x 48' ranch style (single level) in central NY. I'm pretty much set on the gravity flow setup. After using a coal stove for the past 9 years, I really think the gravity flow will integrate flawlessly with the slow and steady ways of coal and also if the power goes out I don't have to worry about the heat. I have some great folks assisting with the installation and layout plans, they have experience with this type of system and boiler specifically. But, I like to get input from others as well. I was wondering if anyone has had first hand experience with gravity flow radiant floor heat specifically. And if you could tell me any of it's quirks, or the details I should be conscious of while installing it. If you have any questions please ask.


 
coalder
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Post by coalder » Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 2:49 pm

Welcome aboard C. While I don't have any experience with a radiant floor system; I have been heating my home for 7 yrs with a hand fed boiler & pretty much a gravity system. I have hot water baseboard & simply put a bypass line with a ball valve from the coal boiler to the main loop. I simply crack the ball valve till the far end of the loop feels somewhere between warm & hot. & that seems to be the sweet spot. The water flows freely, circulator rarely engages, primary draft rarely opens as idle air is set to maintain 200* on the load door & if I have a power outage, no big deal. Good luck with your venture.
Jim

 
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dbsuz05
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Post by dbsuz05 » Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 3:30 pm

You stated your home is single floor. Does that mean you don’t have a basement to install your boiler? Only reason I’m asking is that you wouldn’t have gravity flow if the boiler isn’t installed below the floor your going to heat.

 
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Post by lzaharis » Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 4:01 pm

3 words; "don't do it".

If you do not have a basement to create a rising flow of hot water with a hot water riser connected to an open to air expansion tank in your attic with a pressure relief pipe that rises through and above the peak of the roof and a hot water return riser that is exactly 18 inches from the hot water riser it will not work.

Your going to need a mixing valve or a tempering tank and a circulator to the heating loop to keep the water temperature low to prevent the pex from melting.

 
Chancey P.
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS Stoves 1100 Aqua Gem/ Gravity flow radiant heat.
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Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut Coal

Post by Chancey P. » Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 5:03 pm

Sorry folks, yes I have a full basement.

 
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dbsuz05
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Post by dbsuz05 » Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 5:41 pm

Ya he’s right about melting pex... in floors at 120-140 degrees it’s ok. But I’ve seen the stuff turn to a wet noodle with a coal boiler! Mixing valve a must for radiant. Dump zone with it’s on circulator is also a good investment. As far as power outages. Get a generator. Or even just one big battery runs my circulator for 12 hours.

 
coalder
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Post by coalder » Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 7:20 pm

Well Chance, You just may well be the first on the forum with that particular system. I've been on here quite some time & am not familiar with anyone else with such a design. However, you have certainly piqued my interest. I can say with certainty that the folks here enjoy photos; so if it's in the cards, keep this thread running as it could be quite an education for many. & as I am sure you are aware, you definitely don't need a generator to operate a properly designed gravity system.
Jim


 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 7:28 pm

Narrow in floor radiant piping with loads of tight radius bends can generate a whopper load of friction head which is an impediment to flow. I'd initially be skeptical of achieving adequate flow via gravity with radiant piping of any significant run length (which is often as much as 300 Ft. per loop). Is gravity radiant commonly done?

 
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Post by jremington » Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 10:59 pm

How much of a rise do you have from the top of the boiler before having to go horizontal? This could be fun. You must live somewhere near me. I’m North of Syracuse.

 
Chancey P.
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Post by Chancey P. » Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 11:27 pm

So the manifold right off the the 1 1/4" inlet and outlet of the boiler will step up to 2" then every ten feet (including the 2-3 feet of vertical rise to the horizontal run of the manifold) it will reduce by one pipe size so (2" - 1 1/2" -1 1/4" - 1" - 3/4") all while sloping 1/4" up every 10' from the boiler until i hit about 45' where the manifold will end.

Where the supply line T's into the horizontal run of the manifold I will have a bladder tank, the boiler will have a 12-15lb pressure reducing water valve feeding it. This should accommodate any pressure variations.

There will be a total of 18 zones cut the house in have long way then divide each half by 9 short way and that will give you the zone lay out. The house is more or less an open floor plan so I won't bother zoning off each room. Each zone will be 3/4" pex (with appropriate aluminum heat transfer plates and insulation below that) no more than 110' long.

The boiler will have a samson bimetallic draft regulator. And because this system will be constant flow, water temperatures should likely never see higher than 140F on a very cold day. I will be glad to share photos when the systems in.

Please understand that not all of the info is 100% spot on. I still have to review my plans with the people that are assisting me and make sure I haven't missed anything.

I will have no problem posting pictures.

 
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Post by jremington » Sat. Feb. 29, 2020 7:54 am

What do you mean by 18 zones?

 
Chancey P.
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS Stoves 1100 Aqua Gem/ Gravity flow radiant heat.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut Coal

Post by Chancey P. » Sat. Feb. 29, 2020 8:18 am

jremington wrote:
Sat. Feb. 29, 2020 7:54 am
What do you mean by 18 zones?

I think I should be saying circuits, still learning. Zone is each individual room, which I am not doing. Circuits are each individual pex loop that comes off the supply and goes back to the return. So there will be 18 circuits. No zones.

 
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Post by lsayre » Sat. Feb. 29, 2020 8:28 am

Every 300 foot loop of 1/2" PEX is considered a circuit or zone. 300 feet of PEX can only heat so many Sq-Ft. of floor space, so it takes a whole lot of such 300 foot run 'zones' as opposed to the more conventional baseboard or radiator conception of 2-4 zones.

Go beyond 300 feet, and circulators can't move sufficient water to heat the loop, such as the friction head that the circluator and PEX loop (system) evolves begins at that juncture to overwhelm the design capability of the circulator. Its a catch 22. And its pretty much game over if one goes beyond ~300 feet.
Last edited by lsayre on Sat. Feb. 29, 2020 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by McGiever » Sat. Feb. 29, 2020 8:33 am

300' circuits, which is NOT the case for this OP, can only be driven by mechcanical means of a pump as you surmised.
This 'gravity' approach resembles little of the pumped version...

 
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Post by jremington » Mon. Mar. 02, 2020 2:11 pm

Chancey P. wrote:
Fri. Feb. 28, 2020 11:49 am
I am new to the form, and would like input on installing a DS 1100 Aqua Gem boiler and gravity flow radiant floor heat. The house is 24' x 48' ranch style (single level) in central NY. I'm pretty much set on the gravity flow setup. After using a coal stove for the past 9 years, I really think the gravity flow will integrate flawlessly with the slow and steady ways of coal and also if the power goes out I don't have to worry about the heat. I have some great folks assisting with the installation and layout plans, they have experience with this type of system and boiler specifically. But, I like to get input from others as well. I was wondering if anyone has had first hand experience with gravity flow radiant floor heat specifically. And if you could tell me any of it's quirks, or the details I should be conscious of while installing it. If you have any questions please ask.
Is there any way that you could make a rough drawing of the room set up and where the radiators are going to be? Also the location of the boiler.


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