Installing DS 1100 Aqua Gem and gravity flow radiant floor heat.

 
Chancey P.
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed. Feb. 26, 2020 11:32 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS Stoves 1100 Aqua Gem/ Gravity flow radiant heat.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut Coal

Post by Chancey P. » Tue. Dec. 29, 2020 5:20 am

lsayre wrote:
Tue. Dec. 29, 2020 5:07 am
For 50 Lbs. of coal feed every 30 hours I see this at about 20,500 BTUH as input, and about 14,500 BTUH as output (the actual BTU's heating your house). On the very coldest days of the year you may see this triple.

How many sq-ft of floorspace are you heating? New construction? Well insulated? Single story?
As far as btus I read a few places that for anthracite nut coal I would get 13,000- 15,000 btus per lb. So I took the average of 14,000 X 50 lbs. And got 700,000 divided by hours per bag. I didn't get anymore complicated than that. Didn't know much less expect the math to be spot on.

Single story stick built modular year 1955
1155 square feet. Insulation 16"-18" attic and some sort of foam board or spray in, not sure in the walls. Floor now has 1" foam board with aluminum reflective barrier on both sides.


 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Tue. Dec. 29, 2020 6:32 am

Chancey P. wrote:
Tue. Dec. 29, 2020 5:20 am
As far as btus I read a few places that for anthracite nut coal I would get 13,000- 15,000 btus per lb. So I took the average of 14,000 X 50 lbs. And got 700,000 divided by hours per bag. I didn't get anymore complicated than that. Didn't know much less expect the math to be spot on.
Those are lab figures for anthracite which is dry (13,000), and then both dry and ash free (15,000). The "As Delivered" figure (complete with 4-6% internal moisture, and 9-16% ash) is typically closer to about 12,250 BTU's/Lb on average for good quality anthracite, and sometimes as low as about 11,000 BTU's/Lb.

Lets assume 12.5% ash, and 5% water. 12.5 + 5 = 17.5%
100% - 17.5% = 82.5%
15,000 x 0.825 = 12,375 BTU's/Lb.

Then add to that the additional "heat of evaporation" factor for driving off the water, and you get ~12,250 BTU's/Lb.

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Tue. Dec. 29, 2020 6:45 am

And 12,375 ÷ 0.95 = 13,026 BTU's for lab dry, but with ash.
(where 100% coal minus its ~5% water = the 0.95 factor)

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Tue. Dec. 29, 2020 6:53 am

When you get up to about 7% internal moisture and 17% ash, plus heat of evaporation, you are at about 11,000 BTU's per pound as a worst case (but very real) scenario.

And lastly you need to account for ~28-30% of the heat produced going out the chimney.

 
fig
Member
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF360
Hand Fed Coal Stove: T.O.M (Warm Morning converted to baseburner by Steve) Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Warm Morning 400, Warm Morning 524, Warm Morning 414,Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 7.1/DS Machine basement stove/ Harman SF1500
Baseburners & Antiques: Renown Parlor stove 87B
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous/anthracite
Other Heating: Harman Accentra, enviro omega, Vermont Ironworks Elm stove, Quadrafire Mt Vernon, Logwood stove, Sotz barrel stove,

Post by fig » Wed. Dec. 30, 2020 5:49 pm

Way over my pay scale. I’m going to the Christmas Train Layout thread.....lol.

 
Chancey P.
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed. Feb. 26, 2020 11:32 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS Stoves 1100 Aqua Gem/ Gravity flow radiant heat.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut Coal

Post by Chancey P. » Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 12:03 am

I wanted to share that this is my second year on gravity flow system and before the season started I made an upgrade. I've installed a 24VDC motorized 2" ball valve on the supply manifold. controlled by a thermostat and runs on a 24 volt DC 8AH lithium battery on a 2 amp trickle charger. This was done so I could keep the house from getting to hot rather we have power or not. The valve is power on power off so I had to control it with a solenoid relay. I have it wired to the ac compressor terminal on the thermostat with it set to cool. So when the set temp. is reached the relay is powered in turn powering the valve to close. When the temp drops the power is cut to the relay solenoid, the valve is then powered to open. While in the open position aside from the battery management and monitor components the system draws very little electricity. Roughly .07 amps per hour. However electricity is not required to heat and/or maintain house temperature.

 
User avatar
Hambden Bob
Member
Posts: 8535
Joined: Mon. Jan. 04, 2010 10:54 am
Location: Hambden Twp. Geauga County,Ohio
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Blower Model Coal Chubby 1982-Serial#0097
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni ! / Nut
Other Heating: Pro-Pain Forced Air

Post by Hambden Bob » Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 3:15 am

Chancey,Thanx For Returning,And For Sharing Your Results And Feedback Regarding This Amazing Gravity Hydronic System!
We experience so many "One And Done" temporary immediate need posters,yet to Us,returning and providing feedback is rather rewarding,satisfying and important! Sorta' like watching Your Kid grow up! It sure does appear that You've cracked through a couple of Barriers and Prohibitive Fences regarding an electric dependent Hydronic System and the Gravity Type. These Animals will Love Your update,and will no doubt have many questions! In the end,most of Us are here because We're drawn to being Independent and not going broke to Heat Our Homes. In a time of Yankee/English Abnormality(The Power's Off),it's Great to see that You've got a System that accomplishes that Independent Goal!!


 
scalabro
Member
Posts: 4197
Joined: Wed. Oct. 03, 2012 9:53 am
Location: Western Massachusetts
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14, Abendroth Bros "Record 40"
Coal Size/Type: Stove / Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Post by scalabro » Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 7:27 am

Agreed HB!

Now we need someone to install a new “Gravity furnace”. At least with that I could understand the discussion 😜😜

 
User avatar
Hambden Bob
Member
Posts: 8535
Joined: Mon. Jan. 04, 2010 10:54 am
Location: Hambden Twp. Geauga County,Ohio
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Blower Model Coal Chubby 1982-Serial#0097
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni ! / Nut
Other Heating: Pro-Pain Forced Air

Post by Hambden Bob » Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 9:07 am

scalabro wrote:
Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 7:27 am
Agreed HB!

Now we need someone to install a new “Gravity furnace”. At least with that I could understand the discussion 😜😜
LOL,Mister!! Now Your Going Back To Da' Old Coal Octopus Monster That Resided In Da' Basement!! I'm finally sick enough of myself that I'm going to get Dan Hollohan's Books regarding the Subject! Between that,and the Wealth of Info/Intel that these Mad Scientists have emitted here,I may finally take Da' Hydronic Plunge!!

 
Chancey P.
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed. Feb. 26, 2020 11:32 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS Stoves 1100 Aqua Gem/ Gravity flow radiant heat.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut Coal

Post by Chancey P. » Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 9:08 am

Hambden Bob wrote:
Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 3:15 am
Chancey,Thanx For Returning,And For Sharing Your Results And Feedback Regarding This Amazing Gravity Hydronic System!
We experience so many "One And Done" temporary immediate need posters,yet to Us,returning and providing feedback is rather rewarding,satisfying and important! Sorta' like watching Your Kid grow up! It sure does appear that You've cracked through a couple of Barriers and Prohibitive Fences regarding an electric dependent Hydronic System and the Gravity Type. These Animals will Love Your update,and will no doubt have many questions! In the end,most of Us are here because We're drawn to being Independent and not going broke to Heat Our Homes. In a time of Yankee/English Abnormality(The Power's Off),it's Great to see that You've got a System that accomplishes that Independent Goal!!
I thought there'd be a few that appreciate the update. I love sharing the updates I'm very proud of this system, for now my goal has been achieved. My next step is to insulate the manifolds. I have a 5 degree differential from one end of the house to the other. So I tried taking some 3/4" foam pipe insulation I had lying around and just insulated the supply manifold. It's a cob job all taped up sections still not covered and two lengths put together to insulate the larger pipe. But it was the only thing that improved that issue i'm down to at most a 2 degree differential.

Another concern is that the motorized ball valve is power on power off it's also connected to my high limit aquastat (set to 180). IF something should happen to the power end of it while it is off, battery failure for example. I want to look into getting the power closed spring open controller for that valve. Although what would be cool is if they had a valve like that that used a thermal lock to hold the valve closed and would open if it hit a preset temp for example 180 degrees. So it's not drawing power all the time it's closed... Not sure such a thing even exists but it would be nice. Thought, ideas?

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 5:02 pm

Sounds like you want a automobile thermostat. Uses no power and Stays closed until heated to 180 degrees.

 
Chancey P.
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed. Feb. 26, 2020 11:32 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS Stoves 1100 Aqua Gem/ Gravity flow radiant heat.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut Coal

Post by Chancey P. » Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 8:22 pm

McGiever wrote:
Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 5:02 pm
Sounds like you want a automobile thermostat. Uses no power and Stays closed until heated to 180 degrees.
Not at all what I was thinking, but it's a waaay better Idea. I would have to weld in a bypass and make a housing to put it in. And I could keep my control valve as is. IF I can get one large enough to allow a substantial flow rate.

 
User avatar
Pauliewog
Member
Posts: 1824
Joined: Mon. Dec. 02, 2013 12:15 am
Location: Pittston, Pennsylvania
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Dual Paddle Feed
Baseburners & Antiques: Fame Rosemont #20, Home Stove Works #25, Glenwood #6, Happy Thought Oak, Merry Bride #214, Sunnyside, Worlds Argand #114, New Golden Sun , & About 30 others.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Chesnut, Pea, Rice / Anthracite

Post by Pauliewog » Mon. Feb. 07, 2022 6:09 pm

McGiever wrote:
Sun. Feb. 06, 2022 5:02 pm
Sounds like you want a automobile thermostat. Uses no power and Stays closed until heated to 180 degrees.
Love that idea Larry !

Paulie

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Mon. Feb. 07, 2022 6:29 pm

Thanks! Paul!
Interested to see how this might play out. Sounds like Chancy has the skills and means to put something together for this.

 
scalabro
Member
Posts: 4197
Joined: Wed. Oct. 03, 2012 9:53 am
Location: Western Massachusetts
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14, Abendroth Bros "Record 40"
Coal Size/Type: Stove / Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Post by scalabro » Mon. Feb. 07, 2022 6:41 pm

Keep in mind, and I don’t know if it matters, but automotive thermostats don’t snap open and closed at rated temps. They are very gradual in operation…,


Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Boilers Using Anthracite”