Van Wert/EFM Dual Fuel Efficiency

 
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ASea
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Post by ASea » Mon. Jul. 29, 2019 10:56 am

Curious if anyone has a combo boiler, and if they switch over to oil in the warmer months what sort of efficiency they are getting? I realize that depends on a few factors but this is more of a general/overall question? I still have yet to put some sort of coal boiler in my basement. One of these days.


 
lzaharis
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Post by lzaharis » Mon. Jul. 29, 2019 11:37 am

I have a keystoker kaa-4-1 with oil,

I pulled the oil burner as the fumes were backing into the home through the burner tube and around the burner tube where the flange is clamped to the burner tube. And even though the tube was packed with high temperature insulation as keystoker recommends before switching from oil to coal the fumes backed up into the house through the laundry room.

I can tell you the dual fuel units are not worth the trouble or the expense after 4 winters of owning this boiler. Your much better off just switching flue pipes and taping the joints after you remove the stoker flue pipe if they are next to each other.

The other thing is they are much noisier when in operation than a conventional oil boiler.
The fire box is bigger and as a result there is more noise.
The boiler is over one hundred feet in distance from where I sit and you can still hear it firing so...……..

Think long and hard before you shell out that extra money when a small oil fired boiler will do the work.
I wish I had kept my buderus logana G204 and purchased an AHS A130 despite the lousy dealer as I could have just had new plumbing installed after they ripped out the hand fired boiler and the plumbers I hired would not have put the screws to me and I would have only been without heat for 2 days instead of almost a week the first time.

To this day, the plumbers I hired have not called me to see if the plumbing for the boiler is alright and working properly and it is 4 years and 7 months later.
Last edited by lzaharis on Mon. Jul. 29, 2019 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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ASea
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Kast Console II
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Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114, Glenwood 30 "Estate" Warm Morning 120
Coal Size/Type: Sherman Anthracite Nut/Stove from C&T Coal
Other Heating: Peerless Boiler with Cast Iron Baseboards

Post by ASea » Mon. Jul. 29, 2019 1:34 pm

lzaharis wrote:
Mon. Jul. 29, 2019 11:37 am
I have a keystoker kaa-4-1 with oil,
I hate to say it, but I have not heard much good about the Keystoker units.

I have a nice Peerless Oil Boiler now. Wouldn't bother me to add an EFM,Van Wert or even a used hand fired Harman,or DS Aqua Gem. Whatever I get will most likely be used due to budget.

 
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ASea
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Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114, Glenwood 30 "Estate" Warm Morning 120
Coal Size/Type: Sherman Anthracite Nut/Stove from C&T Coal
Other Heating: Peerless Boiler with Cast Iron Baseboards

Post by ASea » Mon. Jul. 29, 2019 1:37 pm

I'm not in a rush. I imagine oil will go up again in the future. It would be nice to have a coal unit in place for when that happens.

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Jul. 29, 2019 11:58 pm

lzaharis wrote:
Mon. Jul. 29, 2019 11:37 am
I have a keystoker kaa-4-1 with oil,

I pulled the oil burner as the fumes were backing into the home through the burner tube and around the burner tube where the flange is clamped to the burner tube. And even though the tube was packed with high temperature insulation as keystoker recommends before switching from oil to coal the fumes backed up into the house through the laundry room.

I can tell you the dual fuel units are not worth the trouble or the expense after 4 winters of owning this boiler. Your much better off just switching flue pipes and taping the joints after you remove the stoker flue pipe if they are next to each other.

The other thing is they are much noisier when in operation than a conventional oil boiler.
The fire box is bigger and as a result there is more noise.
The boiler is over one hundred feet in distance from where I sit and you can still hear it firing so...……..

Think long and hard before you shell out that extra money when a small oil fired boiler will do the work.
I wish I had kept my buderus logana G204 and purchased an AHS A130 despite the lousy dealer as I could have just had new plumbing installed after they ripped out the hand fired boiler and the plumbers I hired would not have put the screws to me and I would have only been without heat for 2 days instead of almost a week the first time, and their crappy controls that only you complain so adamantly about.

To this day, the plumbers I hired have not called me to see if the plumbing for the boiler is alright and working properly and it is 4 years and 7 months later.
Gee, Was that plumber forced on you without your consent?
Because of your personal chimney issues should everyone else steer clear of a Keystoker with an oil burner?

And you forgot to whine about Keystoker not publishing a manual in many years up to your standards...and their crappy controls that only you adamantly complain about. :roll:

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 7:09 am

Everyone should steer clear of dual fuel devices. They are inefficient in one form or the other, it's just the nature of the beast. I recommend another boiler as backup. That way it is efficient AND provides 100% backup. A problem in a dual fuel may leave you stranded on both sides, that won't happen with two seperate boilers.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 7:33 am

A big plus 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
lincolnmania
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Post by lincolnmania » Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 8:23 am

buying two boilers can get mighty expensive tho,

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 9:24 am

Most people usually have one in the house they buy.

 
lincolnmania
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Post by lincolnmania » Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 10:24 am

all i got right now is an oil fired hot air furnace.

i am allowed to install a boiler under the agreement with mom that it be a dual fuel unit.
i have a chronic skin condition that sometimes affects my ability to move around, i have been in remission a while but the thought of ending up under the knife again is always there. if i have oil backup, i can get my cousin to come over and switch me over to oil if needed.

 
lzaharis
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Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 10:25 am

A couple of things;

If I had been able to purchase the VA400 coal stoker boiler in 1982 when I purchased the hand fired wood and coal boiler I would have. I have regretted that mistake.

I spent seven years examining reading and examining and reading as much information as I could gather short of going to Pennsylvania to the manufacturers of coal stoker boilers as I wish I had done that specifically.

I waited for the plumber to have room in his schedule which ended up being in early January 2015 during one of the coldest winters on record which was a mistake.

I made the decision to change from a hand fired wood and coal burning boiler to coal stoker thinking it would be less work.

1. I made that decision after breaking my nose when I was hauling firewood to the boiler after I split it with my timberwolf TW5-FC wood splitter which I purchased new at a huge discount.
2. the keystoker kaa-4-1 was the least costly dual fuel coal stoker boiler
a. the AHS S130 was $7,000.00 plus tax and freight if purchased from the local dealer.
b. That specific dealers installer lives between Rochester, NY and Buffalo, NY
c. I was told that he probably would not come to Ithaca to install it.
d. AHS would have made arrangements to have it installed for me but I had no idea how much it would cost.
3. I could not have the coal stoker and oil fired boiler in the same space as the coal stoker boiler was much larger.
a. If I had purchased the AHS S130 I could have pulled the hand fired boiler and left the oil boiler in place and simply change flue pipes when needed and it would still have been up to NFPA code.
b. the AHS dealer I wanted to buy the S130 from new nothing about the AHS Coal Gun
c. Buying the S130 directly from the builder of the boiler would not have saved me any money at the time(2 winters later they were selling all their coal stoker boilers at a discount which would have helped me considerably.
d. The plumbers I hired were hired because of a relatives recommendation and they were the only ones that would do it even after explaining to the plumber the controls were no different.
e. The original plumbers I had come by never sent me an estimate and 2 years later a saleswoman called and asked if I still wanted an estimate.
e1. Related to the above I called numerous times asking when I was going to receive the estimate I was promised; I never received it.

After having dealt with what I had been saddled with I found that Keystoker made a large number of you tube videos and after 4 years their so called draftsman upgraded their drawings and included the proper symbols in the drawing as well as including the proper electrical symbols in the wiring diagrams/schematics. I am still waiting for the drawings I was promised-I know that they are not coming.

There was no mention in any of the keystoker drawings or sale literature that the baffle plate which I thought was welded to the flue breech could be removed in order to allow cleaning of the flue breech and any fly ash that built up behind it.

The added problems with the hydrolevel 3250 plus that came with the wiring harness and the additional problems with the second unit being incorrect temperature measurement and the low water cut off function turning it self off onoy added to my disgust. The plumber I had done business with before told me my problems were all related to the fact that I had a brand new steel compression tank for the heating system pressure control at operating temperature.
After having the new Honeywell mechanical triple aquastat and separate low wate rcut off installed I have not had a single problem with the controls or the system allowing the water to boil off.



SO, I don't feel that I was whining nor will I ever feel that I was whining.
I guess that having spent all the money I did and having all the problems I had to live with and not receiving help from keystoker when I offered to put their plumber or electrician up in a hotel and being told that I would still be charged 75 dollars an hour for travel time to and from my home and then them saying they would not come anyway as it was too far and living without heat during that period in January 2015 and buying the 8 tons of coal that I did when I purchased "the" dual fuel boiler so no I was not whining just stating the facts as it happened to me.

Don't expect me to change my opinion of keystoker or their lack of service to a customer that spent almost $6,000.00 on one of their "excellent boilers".
I figure the 64 owners of their boilers that had 64 of their wonderful hydrostat 3250 plus triple aquastats as considered failed by the owners plumbers cannot be wrong. Bench testing a "failed" triple aquastat with a bernzomatic torch does not come close to testing in my opinion.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 10:49 am

lincolnmania wrote:
Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 10:24 am
all i got right now is an oil fired hot air furnace.

i am allowed to install a boiler under the agreement with mom that it be a dual fuel unit.
i have a chronic skin condition that sometimes affects my ability to move around, i have been in remission a while but the thought of ending up under the knife again is always there. if i have oil backup, i can get my cousin to come over and switch me over to oil if needed.
Buy the coal boiler of your choice, put a coil in mom's furnace plenum, dual fuel, no plumbing headaches, problem solved.

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 11:34 am

definition of whining: to complain or express disappointment or unhappiness repeatedly...to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way...a Search of user posts will bear out these facts

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 4:59 pm

:lol: Indeed M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 8:23 pm

lincolnmania wrote:
Tue. Jul. 30, 2019 10:24 am
all i got right now is an oil fired hot air furnace.

i am allowed to install a boiler under the agreement with mom that it be a dual fuel unit.
i have a chronic skin condition that sometimes affects my ability to move around, i have been in remission a while but the thought of ending up under the knife again is always there. if i have oil backup, i can get my cousin to come over and switch me over to oil if needed.
Used oil boilers can often be found for cheap/free. They get removed all the time when people convert to natural gas.


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