Central Boiler FORGE 3500 Outdoor Coal Boiler

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McGiever
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 2:43 pm

Guessing the math may still come up short even by adding 10-15 degrees...not to mention little margin for a boil over...

Limited but steady output less than what pump and pipe size allows spells. Bottleneck somewhere...air,maybe?


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hotblast1357
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: oil furnace
Location: Peasleeville NY

Post By: hotblast1357 » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 2:48 pm

Yes very little margin for a boil over, but with constant circulation through 90’ of baseboard it shouldn’t really over shoot much...

I just skimmed through the thread again.. looks like simply he needs a bigger circulator, and more radiation..

Quick and dirty would be a couple T’s and a couple modines depending on piping layout.. but that would get annoying quick in my living room!

Unfortunately now is not the time of year to do doing this stuff..

Either jump all in with a bigger circulator and more radiation, and hope the buried 1” line can supply, or run it and supplement with another heat source inside.

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lsayre
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post By: lsayre » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 2:52 pm

The actual flow rate must be only about 2.27 GPM presuming an accurate 22 degree Delta-T measurement. That means the 15-58 circulator is pumping into about 17.2 ft. of friction head. It seems highly likely that there is a blockage or an airlock somewhere. Either that, or the total length of piping on that loop is in the ballpark of 750 to 1,000 feet.

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Lightning
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix
Location: Olean, NY

Post By: Lightning » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 5:21 pm

This afternoon I actually suggested checking into the return policy on this boiler because we all know it's way too big. Then he could take the route of getting a nice second hand stoker boiler like Rob suggested, and do the other things. I realize it's all very bad timing given this time of year.

The boiler did eventually exceed 200 and shut down the combustion air but fortunately it didn't kill the fire this time.

Dave appreciates everyone's input. I didn't see any spigots or valves to power purge the loop with so all that stuff needs to be installed (I'm guessing) to even do that much, unless there is another way.
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StokerDon
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959Axeman Anderson130M, 1991Axeman Anderson130M, BairMatic BMC-500/Van Wert VA400 Stoker, Gentleman Janitor GJ-671SU/EFM S-15 stoker, 2xVan Wert VA-600
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Pea, Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Location: PA, Southern York County!

Post By: StokerDon » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 5:54 pm

WOW! They installed it with no boiler drain and no shutoff valves in the whole system?

They were really trying to save a buck. Unfortunately, you may never get the air out of the system.

-Don

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lsayre
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
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Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post By: lsayre » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 6:24 pm

Are his HWB's 3/4" or 1/2"?

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Lightning
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
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Post By: Lightning » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 6:33 pm

lsayre wrote:
Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 6:24 pm
Are his HWB's 3/4" or 1/2"?
I don't know at this point, but I can find out. That would make a big difference wouldn't it.

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Lightning
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
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Location: Olean, NY

Post By: Lightning » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 6:35 pm

StokerDon wrote:
Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 5:54 pm
WOW! They installed it with no boiler drain and no shutoff valves in the whole system?

They were really trying to save a buck. Unfortunately, you may never get the air out of the system.

-Don
I think, if I recall correct, seeing one valve in the house near the pump.


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StokerDon
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959Axeman Anderson130M, 1991Axeman Anderson130M, BairMatic BMC-500/Van Wert VA400 Stoker, Gentleman Janitor GJ-671SU/EFM S-15 stoker, 2xVan Wert VA-600
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Pea, Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Location: PA, Southern York County!

Post By: StokerDon » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 6:54 pm

Lee, you might want to check the baseboards themselves. Sometimes they put bleeders under the covers. Is this a 1 story house? Is the boiler on a piece of ground lower or higher than the house? How do they get water into the boiler? It's an open system so it needs to be checked and filled regularly.

-Don

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lsayre
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
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Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post By: lsayre » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 7:16 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 6:33 pm
I don't know at this point, but I can find out. That would make a big difference wouldn't it.
It would go a long way toward explaining what appears to be diminished flow.

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McGiever
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 8:10 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 2:48 pm
Yes very little margin for a boil over, but with constant circulation through 90’ of baseboard it shouldn’t really over shoot much...

I just skimmed through the thread again.. looks like simply he needs a bigger circulator, and more radiation..

Go back and re-skim, partner...
Well, besides a boil situation the fancy controls will kill the combustion air and the fire is in jeopardy of going out and needing a wood infusion in the AM to try and save it.

Please recognize this piping as it stands now is incapable any more increase of flow...forget the bigger pump until the air is purged. Likewise, it is ridiculous to add more rads when there isn't enough flow for the rads it has already.

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McGiever
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Posts: 7694
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 8:14 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 6:33 pm
I don't know at this point, but I can find out. That would make a big difference wouldn't it.
No big difference no matter which size they are...we got minimal flow capabilities...bottle necked water flow...remember.

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McGiever
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Posts: 7694
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 8:20 pm

lsayre wrote:
Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 7:16 pm
It would go a long way toward explaining what appears to be diminished flow.
System opened to install new boiler which allowed introduction of some air and there doesn't appear to be a way to purge the air out.

I'll suggest some PEX fittings, a PEX crimper tool, PEX boiler drains and PEX quarter turn ball valves...for starters...oh. and a Dan Holohan book or two ASAP!

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McGiever
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Posts: 7694
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 8:32 pm

StokerDon wrote:
Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 6:54 pm
Lee, you might want to check the baseboards themselves. Sometimes they put bleeders under the covers.

-Don
X2, it takes a special "key" tool to crack them open and then back closed...at each and every rad...in one series loop.
This can be a chore. bouncing back and forth for a couple days on your hands and knees...however, some old smart dead guys came up with the "power purge" so they could play on their cell phones during the purge time and skip all that drama of bouncing around and being on their hands and knees in every room multiple times all during a couple of day's time if they got lucky. ;)

CapeCoaler
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Post By: CapeCoaler » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 8:51 pm

Check the baseboard pipe size and the connections between...
Quick and dirty bower purge install might just save the day...


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