Burning coal in outdoor boiler

 
Chevyjohn
New Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 11:17 am
Location: Peru or upstate N,Y,
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Saquoya
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal

Post by Chevyjohn » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 11:46 am

New to coal burning I have a Sequoya outdoor wood/coal boiler. Always burned wood trying to do coal for my body doesn't like wood as much any more. Stove has Shaker grates air is under grates and has firebrick up the sides.when I get the coal going it doesn't seem to get hot enough to get water temp up above 140 in 40 degree days and eventually goes out. Do I need more draft air or someone said I need a cycle timer to keep fire going. Any help would be appreciated remember new to coal so don't be mean.


 
cabinover
Member
Posts: 2344
Joined: Wed. Feb. 04, 2009 7:13 am
Location: Fair Haven, VT
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid Axeman Anderson 130
Baseburners & Antiques: Sparkle #12
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Buckwheat, Nut
Other Heating: LP Hot air. WA TX for coal use.

Post by cabinover » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 12:01 pm

Nobody here is mean, we're all a helpful bunch. A little nuts sometimes :baby: but that's ok.

Do you have pics of the firebox and grates? That will help in figuring out which direction to send you.

Someone will be along shortly that can help you along but it's not me. Mine is indoors and a stoker of sorts.

Welcome to the club!

 
CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 6515
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Post by CapeCoaler » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 12:04 pm

What brand and model wood boiler ya got...
From there the coal burning aspects can be determined best...
Someone may have already tweaked a comparable model...
Pictures of the grates fire box and chimney help...

 
User avatar
coaledsweat
Site Moderator
Posts: 13763
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Guilford, Connecticut
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Post by coaledsweat » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 12:16 pm

Wood burners often make a common mistake when switching to coal. Make sure the coal bed is filled completly! Anything less is asking for trouble.

 
Chevyjohn
New Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 11:17 am
Location: Peru or upstate N,Y,
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Saquoya
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal

Post by Chevyjohn » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 12:37 pm

sequoya 275 outdoor coal/wood boiler grate are same as a crown royal coal stove. cant figure out how to add pics very comp. illiterate.I am back on wood now to keep house and hot water going.The fire also seems to be only in the middle of firebox when grates are complete bottom of box. Does coal require more or less draft air than wood.Mine has a blower under grates and i have tried more and less air at no change to outcome,

 
franco b
Site Moderator
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
Location: Kent CT
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Post by franco b » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 12:46 pm

A wood firebox is large. It is very easy for the air to bypass the burning coal in the center that is partially ashed up and go through the rest of the bed instead. This is why coaledsweat suggested a deeper bed of coal. At least 8 inches deep with nut coal

Now that you have a wood fire going, add coal in layers until the firebox is full in depth with coal.

 
Chevyjohn
New Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 11:17 am
Location: Peru or upstate N,Y,
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Saquoya
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal

Post by Chevyjohn » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 1:03 pm

:yes:
cabinover wrote:
Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 12:01 pm
Nobody here is mean, we're all a helpful bunch. A little nuts sometimes :baby: but that's ok.

Do you have pics of the firebox and grates? That will help in figuring out which direction to send you.

Someone will be along shortly that can help you along but it's not me. Mine is indoors and a stoker of sorts.

Welcome to the club!


 
Chevyjohn
New Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 11:17 am
Location: Peru or upstate N,Y,
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Saquoya
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal

Post by Chevyjohn » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 1:07 pm

will try one more time. 47 degrees today. does anyone think i need a cycle timer so fire wont go out in long down times between heating cycles?

 
Chevyjohn
New Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 11:17 am
Location: Peru or upstate N,Y,
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Saquoya
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal

Post by Chevyjohn » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 1:09 pm

I appreciate the help maybe i didnt have a big enough pile of coal. Was afraid to over do it and smother the fire.

 
User avatar
StokerDon
Site Moderator
Posts: 7486
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
Location: PA, Southern York County!
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 1:11 pm

Welcome to the forum Chev.

All of the above advice is really good, so go with that. We are assuming that you are burning Anthracite coal, not Bit coal. The stove size is probably a good choice for something like this, so good job on that.

I am not at all familiar with this make or model but, I'm sure it is primarily meant to burn wood or Bit coal, not Anthracite. Don't despair though, it will probably work great with a few minor changes to accommodate Anthracite coal.

The first thing I can think of is make sure you close off any over fire air. If there are controls for this close them completely.

The second thing is there are probably passages inside that duct the air from your blower over the fire. You need to find these and block them off. Fiberglass insulation can be used by stuffing it in these passages.

If you have a short chimney you may need to put a cycle timer on the blower. You need a consent draft to keep a coal fire going. It isn't going to dump as much heat into the chimney as a wood fire.

Once you have eliminated any over fire draft it should burn coal very well.

-Don

 
Chevyjohn
New Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 11:17 am
Location: Peru or upstate N,Y,
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Saquoya
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal

Post by Chevyjohn » Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 1:16 pm

:yes:
StokerDon wrote:
Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 1:11 pm
Welcome to the forum Chev.

All of the above advice is really good, so go with that. We are assuming that you are burning Anthracite coal, not Bit coal. The stove size is probably a good choice for something like this, so good job on that.

I am not at all familiar with this make or model but, I'm sure it is primarily meant to burn wood or Bit coal, not Anthracite. Don't despair though, it will probably work great with a few minor changes to accommodate Anthracite coal.

The first thing I can think of is make sure you close off any over fire air. If there are controls for this close them completely.

The second thing is there are probably passages inside that duct the air from your blower over the fire. You need to find these and block them off. Fiberglass insulation can be used by stuffing it in these passages.

If you have a short chimney you may need to put a cycle timer on the blower. You need a consent draft to keep a coal fire going. It isn't going to dump as much heat into the chimney as a wood fire.

Once you have eliminated any over fire draft it should burn coal very well.

-Don

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Sun. Nov. 04, 2018 10:19 am

Chevyjohn wrote:
Sat. Nov. 03, 2018 11:46 am
New to coal burning I have a Sequoya outdoor wood/coal boiler. Always burned wood trying to do coal for my body doesn't like wood as much any more. Stove has Shaker grates air is under grates and has firebrick up the sides.when I get the coal going it doesn't seem to get hot enough to get water temp up above 140 in 40 degree days and eventually goes out. Do I need more draft air or someone said I need a cycle timer to keep fire going. Any help would be appreciated remember new to coal so don't be mean.
===================================================================================================

I was going to invest in a little boss man or a whispering pine model when I was looking at changing things at my place.

1. Do you have an evergreen model with the firebox bypass plate that you move in and out with the handle over the
loading door so you can load the boiler without any gasses coming out the front of the boiler.

2. Have you checked the cleanout in the back of the firebox to clean it free of ash? it may be partially blocked with
ash.

3. Have you pushed a chimney brush down the stack??

4. Have you cleaned out under the ash pan?

5. Have you removed the squirrel cage fan and cleaned the fan blades?

6. What condition are the door gaskets in?

=================================================================================================

What I did with my hand fed boiler to improve how well it burned coal and wood is this.

I purchased a scrap piece of 2" by 12" by 12" channel iron wide enough to cover the shaker grate frame and allow the grates to be shaken without interfering with the movement of the shaker grates.

I filled the firebox half full of full size fire brick up to the flue breech to make a huge heat sink and get a better burn.

I simply stacked the fire brick in the firebox without mortar and it gave us a hotter fire that smoked very little when burning wood and I was able to get a finer coal ash when burning chestnut and stove coal.

What you are doing is making a firebox reducer to accomplish the following things;

1. By reducing the square area of the firebox to concentrate the combustion air is entering the firebox from under the grates increasing the speed of the combustion air entering the firebox through the grates.

2. By using a large mass of firebrick you create a huge heat sink that will hold the heat from the fire and slowly radiate it back into the fire box to keep the water hot to maintain a huge amount of thermal mass which will absorb heat and radiate heat back in to the firebox.

3. The burn time will be longer and you can add more coal with out issues after shaking the grates.

In doing this repair the work maintaining the fire will be easier and you can shovel more coal in the boiler in the back and bank it and pull it forward on the fire after you shake the coal grates.

Lowes has a standard firebrick for $2.75 + tax each and if you have a place where you can buy some channel iron it will be easy to do as long as you buy a piece of 2 inch channel iron wide enough to cover the shaker grate frame and allow it to be shook to remove the ash form the fire.

Even one layer of firebrick and a piece of channel iron will accomplish this BUT there will not be enough firebrick to create a large thermal mass to absorb the heat and then allow it to shed back into the firebox.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Sun. Nov. 04, 2018 11:40 pm

Is this your fire box?

Two strikes towards being a coal friendly firebox...

No fire brick here...hot coals will need to sit on too much of the water wall.
Shape of where fire will contact wall is not conducive to allow ash to be shaken without additional raking and stirring of the hot coals.

Coal fires likes to have a proportional size grate area to met BTU/Hr output with some deep brick layers on 4 sides to avoid fire touching the water wall and at the same time allow for a deep bed of coals. Coal load is always the same size, even when the temps are milder or if they are coldest...controlling the air determines the heat output...not the amount of coal that gets loaded in.

Unlike a wood fire, one must refrain from disturbing the coal bed other than by shaking of the grates to remove ashes or the layering on of fresh coal to sustain the fire. Raking and/or stirring the hot coals can be a death sentence for the fire.

And depending on model, the smaller size boiler has a 6" short stack that even with a blower for combustion may come up a little short for the job at hand.

Image

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Mon. Nov. 05, 2018 7:24 am

Good Morning McGeiver,
That looks like an older Royal brand forest eater.

The three Evergreen Models I looked at had rectangular fireboxes and they had one row of standard firebrick laid up vertically at a slight angle on the sides sitting in a tray of angle iron and along the rear wall to allow the coal to be heaped in the center without contacting the boiler sidewalls.
The Big Bossman and Little Bossman were fully lined from top to bottom and and the ceiling of the firebox was also lined with firebrick.

Ricks evergreen boilers were designed and made very well. He only needed a longer firebox with a larger afterburner chamber to make them burn cleaner.

The evergreen and bossman models had a solenoid controlled squirrel cage fan that was mounted horizontally where the solenoid pulled the air door of the squirrel cage fan up and when the high limit was reached the voltage to the solenoid was cut and the weight attached to the lifting rod for the solenoid was heavy enough to shut the air door with a tight seal. Rick designed them to be easy to clean by removing the rear access plate and the firebrick from the rear smoke chamber to allow for easy cleaning.


If a stoker like the DF520 or the VA400 was integrated with a firebrick lined firebox like the Switzer and Garn wood burning units and a 2 pass smoke tube set up with a rear clean outs at the end of the water chamber a boiler set up like this would make a lot of hot water quickly.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Mon. Nov. 05, 2018 9:55 am

Has the OP made reference to the Evergreen or other brand names thown around in this thread?


Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Boilers Using Anthracite”