pricing installation
- Sylvesterd101
- Member
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 10:46 pm
- Location: Lehighton PA
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF260
- Coal Size/Type: nut, anthracite
So i purchased a harman sf260 boiler for my home to replace my leaking oil boiler, i got quoted 7k to install it. I can not afford that. The house i purchased is in center city lehighton, does anyone know someone reasonable who is familiar with this product in yhe surrounding area?
- Sylvesterd101
- Member
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 10:46 pm
- Location: Lehighton PA
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF260
- Coal Size/Type: nut, anthracite
By andreas heating by the way
- coaledsweat
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- Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
- Location: Guilford, Connecticut
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
- Coal Size/Type: Pea
Gadzooks! That is a bit pricey for a day's work.
-
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- Posts: 2379
- Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
- Location: Ithaca, New York
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
- Coal Size/Type: rice
- Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused
Hello Sylvesterd101,
The first thing I am going to suggest you do is go to the heating help forum and visit the section titled "find a plumber".
The second thing would like you to do is purchase 3 paper backs to help you understand your plumbing.
1. CLASSIC HYDRONICS
2. PUMPING AWAY
3. HOW COME
These paperback books were written by Dan Holohan who has almost five decades of plumbing experiene of all types. These paperbacks are a godsend for the novice plumber and professional both when it comes to heating a home with hot water circulation. He has written many books about plumbing and he makes the reading fun and also writes about his experience in plumbing in heating as well as the history of heating and cooling.
You can purchase them directly from the author at www.dansbooks.com or through the heating help home page in the bookstore section.
www.heatinghelp.com
I guess you could also check with the folks at Marks Supply in Shenadoa PA? and ask who they would recommend that installs coal boilers.
If you purchase the firebox reducer for your 260 you will save a lot of money when buying coal or wood as the coal and the wood will burn much better and you will have much less unburned coal in the ashes.
I filled my old handfeds firebox half full of firebrick up to the flue breech and I got a much better burn and burned less coal as the coal burned hotter and gave off more heat to the three wet walls of the boiler.
I got screwed over by my plumbers so you have to have a written estimate. I bought 99% of the parts that my job required and the boilers hydrostat controls were screwed to begin with and the second set of controls were also screwed up and I replaced them with a Honeywell L8124L1011 triple aquastat and a B+G Bull Dog RB-122-E low water cut off.
After I replaced the bad hydrolevel controls they sent I have had no problems with my keystoker KAA-4-1 and I sleep well at night after having so many problems with it.
We want you to succeed, I want you to succeed.
The first thing I am going to suggest you do is go to the heating help forum and visit the section titled "find a plumber".
The second thing would like you to do is purchase 3 paper backs to help you understand your plumbing.
1. CLASSIC HYDRONICS
2. PUMPING AWAY
3. HOW COME
These paperback books were written by Dan Holohan who has almost five decades of plumbing experiene of all types. These paperbacks are a godsend for the novice plumber and professional both when it comes to heating a home with hot water circulation. He has written many books about plumbing and he makes the reading fun and also writes about his experience in plumbing in heating as well as the history of heating and cooling.
You can purchase them directly from the author at www.dansbooks.com or through the heating help home page in the bookstore section.
www.heatinghelp.com
I guess you could also check with the folks at Marks Supply in Shenadoa PA? and ask who they would recommend that installs coal boilers.
If you purchase the firebox reducer for your 260 you will save a lot of money when buying coal or wood as the coal and the wood will burn much better and you will have much less unburned coal in the ashes.
I filled my old handfeds firebox half full of firebrick up to the flue breech and I got a much better burn and burned less coal as the coal burned hotter and gave off more heat to the three wet walls of the boiler.
I got screwed over by my plumbers so you have to have a written estimate. I bought 99% of the parts that my job required and the boilers hydrostat controls were screwed to begin with and the second set of controls were also screwed up and I replaced them with a Honeywell L8124L1011 triple aquastat and a B+G Bull Dog RB-122-E low water cut off.
After I replaced the bad hydrolevel controls they sent I have had no problems with my keystoker KAA-4-1 and I sleep well at night after having so many problems with it.
We want you to succeed, I want you to succeed.
-
- Member
- Posts: 705
- Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2014 11:47 am
- Location: Quakertown, PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
- Coal Size/Type: WAS Lehigh Rice (TBD)
- Other Heating: EFM SPK600
This is good info but irrelevant since he/she is looking to pay someone to complete the install.lzaharis wrote: ↑Wed. Sep. 19, 2018 2:03 pmHello Sylvesterd101,
The first thing I am going to suggest you do is go to the heating help forum and visit the section titled "find a plumber".
The second thing would like you to do is purchase 3 paper backs to help you understand your plumbing.
1. CLASSIC HYDRONICS
2. PUMPING AWAY
3. HOW COME
These paperback books were written by Dan Holohan who has almost five decades of plumbing experiene of all types. These paperbacks are a godsend for the novice plumber and professional both when it comes to heating a home with hot water circulation. He has written many books about plumbing and he makes the reading fun and also writes about his experience in plumbing in heating as well as the history of heating and cooling.
You can purchase them directly from the author at www.dansbooks.com or through the heating help home page in the bookstore section.
www.heatinghelp.com
I guess you could also check with the folks at Marks Supply in Shenadoa PA? and ask who they would recommend that installs coal boilers.
If you purchase the firebox reducer for your 260 you will save a lot of money when buying coal or wood as the coal and the wood will burn much better and you will have much less unburned coal in the ashes.
I filled my old handfeds firebox half full of firebrick up to the flue breech and I got a much better burn and burned less coal as the coal burned hotter and gave off more heat to the three wet walls of the boiler.
I got screwed over by my plumbers so you have to have a written estimate. I bought 99% of the parts that my job required and the boilers hydrostat controls were screwed to begin with and the second set of controls were also screwed up and I replaced them with a Honeywell L8124L1011 triple aquastat and a B+G Bull Dog RB-122-E low water cut off.
After I replaced the bad hydrolevel controls they sent I have had no problems with my keystoker KAA-4-1 and I sleep well at night after having so many problems with it.
We want you to succeed, I want you to succeed.
- Sylvesterd101
- Member
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 10:46 pm
- Location: Lehighton PA
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF260
- Coal Size/Type: nut, anthracite
Lol pretty much qtown, im a shift worker so i barley have time to do it myself let alone teach myself.
- warminmn
- Member
- Posts: 8189
- Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
- Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Riteway 37
- Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
- Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt
But in the future someone will find all that info Iza shared while searching and use it. Thats the good thing about forums over other websites, like facebook. Easy to search.
- Sylvesterd101
- Member
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 10:46 pm
- Location: Lehighton PA
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF260
- Coal Size/Type: nut, anthracite
Sigh, hopefully i find someone before winter that will swap my boilers for a reasonable price
-
- Member
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Sat. Jan. 24, 2015 11:22 pm
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant II 2310
- Other Heating: natural gas central forced air
No, but when I bought my house 7 years ago in Fulton KY, I bought a stove and had it installed by the contractor who did some other remodeling like carpets and carpentry. The stove was $1400 and the installation was $900, including Class A chimney. They are over 50 miles away, in TN, and brought 4 men to bring it in. I assume you already have usable chimney, so the cost should not be so high.
The problem is that you probably want a qualified stove dealer to do it--they know all the local laws, etc., and have experience with stoves. I bought my new coal stove online, and had it shipped to them for installation, even though they no longer keep a stove showroom. (They can sell them by special order, but are willing to do installations. )
There could be reasons for such a high bid--I would ask them for an itemized estimate to see why it is so high. There may be ways they could do it cheaper. There should be many dealers and contractors in the Scranton area, though some may want to penalize people for buying the stove somewhere else. Contractors who repair or restore chimneys should be able to do it, and there are many of those. The price you were quoted was much more than my Sears central air and heat with gas, including ducts, furnace, AC, wiring, gas lines, and all.
The problem is that you probably want a qualified stove dealer to do it--they know all the local laws, etc., and have experience with stoves. I bought my new coal stove online, and had it shipped to them for installation, even though they no longer keep a stove showroom. (They can sell them by special order, but are willing to do installations. )
There could be reasons for such a high bid--I would ask them for an itemized estimate to see why it is so high. There may be ways they could do it cheaper. There should be many dealers and contractors in the Scranton area, though some may want to penalize people for buying the stove somewhere else. Contractors who repair or restore chimneys should be able to do it, and there are many of those. The price you were quoted was much more than my Sears central air and heat with gas, including ducts, furnace, AC, wiring, gas lines, and all.
Sylvesterd101 wrote: ↑Wed. Sep. 19, 2018 1:26 pmSo i purchased a harman sf260 boiler for my home to replace my leaking oil boiler, i got quoted 7k to install it. I can not afford that. The house i purchased is in center city lehighton, does anyone know someone reasonable who is familiar with this product in yhe surrounding area?
-
- Member
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- Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
- Location: Cape Cod, MA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
- Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
Is there more work than cutting out the old boiler...
And connecting the new one in...
Seems very pricey...
Unless there is other work to be done...
It is already in the basement right...
And connecting the new one in...
Seems very pricey...
Unless there is other work to be done...
It is already in the basement right...
- Rob R.
- Site Moderator
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- Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
- Location: Chazy, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr
Good point. 7k is very high for simply cutting out one boiler and piping the other in its place, but re-zoning the system, new pumps and controls, repairing chimney, etc jacks the bill up quickly.
I'll suggest one of the EFM guys in your area - Jack Ryan Plumbing & Heating, in Mahanoy City, Pennsylvania. (570) 773-3704
I'll suggest one of the EFM guys in your area - Jack Ryan Plumbing & Heating, in Mahanoy City, Pennsylvania. (570) 773-3704
- Sylvesterd101
- Member
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 10:46 pm
- Location: Lehighton PA
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF260
- Coal Size/Type: nut, anthracite
Just the boiler, my neighbores told me they dont usually do coal so they said they were taking me for a ride. Im gonna call around today and let you know if i have any luck
-
- Member
- Posts: 2379
- Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
- Location: Ithaca, New York
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
- Coal Size/Type: rice
- Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused
To begin with:
The problem is the first initial risk aversion reaction to the question by the plumber as they know nothing about coal burning as a rule and they are risk averse about solid fuel boilers as the greatest majority of them have done nothing but repair, maintain and install fossil fuel appliances fired by fuel oil, kerosene, natural gas, propane.
The other thing is licensing as many plumbers will not work outside of their home counties due to the nature of thier plumbing licenses and the fact that they do not have a plumbing license in the adjoining county or nearby state.
Some plumbers may gouge someone as they feel they have a captive audience because coal boilers and furnaces were very common in cities and rural areas as they were before the Korean War due to the advance of natural gas in the market place.
In my case the installer recommended by the Warners Coal and Stoves my keystoker dealer wanted $8,000.00 to install a KAA-4, move the oil boiler to the side and keep the oil boiler and install a stainless steel chimney for the oil boiler as a separate appliance.
Installing the KAA-4-1 was a mistake as I could have had a new AHS S130 installed right next to the oil boiler and used the same chimney by installing all new near boiler plumbing and simply changing the flue pipes in one of the two clay thimbles which would have been sealed off.
I should have returned the KAA-4-1 boiler as it was still on the trailer and been done with it.
As it is now, I do not recommend this brand due to the digital controls they use and the past history of the hydrolevel controls failing-Keystoker had 54 sets of controls returned to them as bad before I returned the two bad units and they said the 54 units were not bad. BUT one most remember that Keystoker simply bench tests the controls they are not installed in a test boiler after the wiring harnesses are assembled prior to shipment.
The other thing is that prior to hydrolevel changing the printing in their instructions in their installation and owners manual they stated that these units were only to be used in cold start natural gas boilers and NOT in solid fuel appliances.
The honeywell mechanical controls are still available and they are very reliable.
Having a separate and self contained low water cut off is a must and it should be plumbed and wired as the first boiler control to protect the boiler and prevent a boiler from boiling dry and causing a possible explosion which almost happened in my case due to the defective hydrolevel controls.
The honeywell mechanical controls that I had on my 2 boiler set up worked flawlessly from 1988 until 2015 with no problems and the replacement L8124L1011 unit I installed along with the water contact low water cut off have worked flawlessly for the last 2 winters.
I no longer burn kerosene for fuel nor will I unless we can no longer maintain the coal boiler and and I will be removing the oil burner and reinstalling the burner port cover plate back on the boiler.
Just walk into this with both eyes open and purchase every possible part, and plumbing fitting and flue pipe piece you may need to reduce the costs of parts to the minimum. as long as you save the receipts for the parts purchases you can obtain a refund for the unused parts.
If I could have afforded the installed cost of the Van Wert Anthratherm VA400 which was $6,000.00 in 1982 I would have done it at the time and that boiler would still be here.
There are many many good plumbers and many good steam plumbers, the bad ones only make it worse for the good ones as they do not know what they are doing or they do poor installations and the homeowner has to deal with the consequences.
The problem is the first initial risk aversion reaction to the question by the plumber as they know nothing about coal burning as a rule and they are risk averse about solid fuel boilers as the greatest majority of them have done nothing but repair, maintain and install fossil fuel appliances fired by fuel oil, kerosene, natural gas, propane.
The other thing is licensing as many plumbers will not work outside of their home counties due to the nature of thier plumbing licenses and the fact that they do not have a plumbing license in the adjoining county or nearby state.
Some plumbers may gouge someone as they feel they have a captive audience because coal boilers and furnaces were very common in cities and rural areas as they were before the Korean War due to the advance of natural gas in the market place.
In my case the installer recommended by the Warners Coal and Stoves my keystoker dealer wanted $8,000.00 to install a KAA-4, move the oil boiler to the side and keep the oil boiler and install a stainless steel chimney for the oil boiler as a separate appliance.
Installing the KAA-4-1 was a mistake as I could have had a new AHS S130 installed right next to the oil boiler and used the same chimney by installing all new near boiler plumbing and simply changing the flue pipes in one of the two clay thimbles which would have been sealed off.
I should have returned the KAA-4-1 boiler as it was still on the trailer and been done with it.
As it is now, I do not recommend this brand due to the digital controls they use and the past history of the hydrolevel controls failing-Keystoker had 54 sets of controls returned to them as bad before I returned the two bad units and they said the 54 units were not bad. BUT one most remember that Keystoker simply bench tests the controls they are not installed in a test boiler after the wiring harnesses are assembled prior to shipment.
The other thing is that prior to hydrolevel changing the printing in their instructions in their installation and owners manual they stated that these units were only to be used in cold start natural gas boilers and NOT in solid fuel appliances.
The honeywell mechanical controls are still available and they are very reliable.
Having a separate and self contained low water cut off is a must and it should be plumbed and wired as the first boiler control to protect the boiler and prevent a boiler from boiling dry and causing a possible explosion which almost happened in my case due to the defective hydrolevel controls.
The honeywell mechanical controls that I had on my 2 boiler set up worked flawlessly from 1988 until 2015 with no problems and the replacement L8124L1011 unit I installed along with the water contact low water cut off have worked flawlessly for the last 2 winters.
I no longer burn kerosene for fuel nor will I unless we can no longer maintain the coal boiler and and I will be removing the oil burner and reinstalling the burner port cover plate back on the boiler.
Just walk into this with both eyes open and purchase every possible part, and plumbing fitting and flue pipe piece you may need to reduce the costs of parts to the minimum. as long as you save the receipts for the parts purchases you can obtain a refund for the unused parts.
If I could have afforded the installed cost of the Van Wert Anthratherm VA400 which was $6,000.00 in 1982 I would have done it at the time and that boiler would still be here.
There are many many good plumbers and many good steam plumbers, the bad ones only make it worse for the good ones as they do not know what they are doing or they do poor installations and the homeowner has to deal with the consequences.
Last edited by lzaharis on Thu. Sep. 20, 2018 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.