It was because of the same problem that IBR (Institute of Boiler and Radiator Manufacturers} was established to have uniform methods of rating. If a boilier has IBR on it you can rely on the rating.lsayre wrote:If your home really does require 100K BTUH output, and you are contemplating a coal stove, it might be best to give serious consideration to the potential that (due to stoves being grossly over rated) you may need 2 of the 100K BTUH class stoves to do the job.
Pounds of Anthracite Burned Per Hour Vs. Output BTUH
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- Lightning
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On the coldest days I use around a 100 pounds per day, which equates to about 35,000 BTUs per hour. I suppose during the day it could trough to 25,000 BTUs per hour needed, then at night 45,000.
If I were to get a boiler that also supplied DHW and everyone took a shower while the dishwasher and laundry were running on the coldest night, how much BTU capacity should my boiler have?
If I were to get a boiler that also supplied DHW and everyone took a shower while the dishwasher and laundry were running on the coldest night, how much BTU capacity should my boiler have?
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A whopper load! A single 2 GPM shower requires 55,000 BTUH (on the output side).
2 GPM x 60 min/hour x 8.34 lbs./gallon x 55 degrees of temperature rise = ~55,000 BTUH.
Good thing showers only last 5 to 10 minutes.
If you go the DHW coil method you will not be doing more than one shower at a time, and you certainly will not simultaneously be doing laundry and running the dish washer. One thing at a time is pretty much the rule.
2 GPM x 60 min/hour x 8.34 lbs./gallon x 55 degrees of temperature rise = ~55,000 BTUH.
Good thing showers only last 5 to 10 minutes.
If you go the DHW coil method you will not be doing more than one shower at a time, and you certainly will not simultaneously be doing laundry and running the dish washer. One thing at a time is pretty much the rule.
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With zone priority you can mitigate this to a fair extent, but for your case 100K BTUH output might be wise.Lightning wrote:So a properly sized boiler would be at least 100,000+ BTUs or shouldn't we consider the worst of the worst case scenario?
45,000 BTUH to heat the home, plus 55,000 BTUH for endless showers. laundry, etc...
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It looks like you have the right size now. An oil fired boiler can fire at full rated capacity instantly which would not be practical with a coal boiler, so a storage tank is advisable to absorb temporary demand of shower or laundry.Lightning wrote:So a properly sized boiler would be at least 100,000+ BTUs or shouldn't we consider the worst of the worst case scenario?
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Fantastic idea Richard If/When I decide to go boiler, that's exactly what I'll do.franco b wrote:so a storage tank is advisable to absorb temporary demand of shower or laundry.
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Our showers have been hot all this winter. Late last winter season I set up an aquastat to kill the zone circulator when the boiler water goes to or below 155 degrees (and not start the circulator again until the boiler water hits 160 degrees), and that has stopped the DHW coil from delivering tepid water to the shower. In effect we now have "shower priority".
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When my boy is in town (he likes to take long showers) I lower the water temp like 10 degrees ... he gets out quick now !lsayre wrote:Our showers have been hot all this winter. Late last winter season I set up an aquastat to kill the zone circulator when the boiler water goes to or below 155 degrees (and not start the circulator again until the boiler water hits 160 degrees), and that has stopped the DHW coil from delivering tepid water to the shower. In effect we now have "shower priority".
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I don't agree with this for 2 reasons. First, many coal boilers have very large water capacities, so they can accommodate some amount of surge DHW load even if the stoker couldn't keep up with that load if it went on indefinitely. Second, I don't see how it would be any different with external DHW production if that production is made using boiler water (e.g., an indirect) and if it has priority over the heating load. Larry you've been an effective proponent of "following the btu's" but if you do that here I don't see how you can single out the coil.lsayre wrote:If you go the DHW coil method you will not be doing more than one shower at a time, and you certainly will not simultaneously be doing laundry and running the dish washer. One thing at a time is pretty much the rule.
Mike
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If you have a 3 (or is it 3.5?) GPM rated DHW coil, you will not have two people taking 2GPM showers at the same time. Some larger boilers have 5 GPM rated DHW coils.Pacowy wrote:I don't agree with this for 2 reasons. First, many coal boilers have very large water capacities, so they can accommodate some amount of surge DHW load even if the stoker couldn't keep up with that load if it went on indefinitely. Second, I don't see how it would be any different with external DHW production if that production is made using boiler water (e.g., an indirect) and if it has priority over the heating load. Larry you've been an effective proponent of "following the btu's" but if you do that here I don't see how you can single out the coil.lsayre wrote:If you go the DHW coil method you will not be doing more than one shower at a time, and you certainly will not simultaneously be doing laundry and running the dish washer. One thing at a time is pretty much the rule.
Mike
I just had a conversation with a lady who swore there was something wrong with her boiler. She has 1/2 inch pipe supplying her tub/shower unit with DHW coming from a 3.5 GPM coil in the boiler. She stated that when she took a bath the water started out hot as she filled the tub and then got only warm. As she put it there was crazy hot water everywhere except filling the tub.
She was also complaining that the boiler was not keeping the house warm.
1. Boiler water temp had been turned down to 120-140. Her boyfriend turned it down to save on heating oil.
2. She was opening the tub hot water faucet wide open.
The Cure?
I turned the aquastat up to 160-180. I told her that the 1/2 pipe can pass around 7 GPM. The coil in the boiler can heat 3.5 GPM.
Stop opening the tub valve all the way.
Checked back two days later and she was a happy camper.
Now I have a coal fired bucket a day plumbed into my hot water boiler and it heats DHW through a plate heat exchanger by syphon. With that extra 40 gallons sitting there we can throw the tub valve wide open and fill the tub as hot as you want it. However don't try it two times in a row. You have to let it perc a little bit after you do that.
She was also complaining that the boiler was not keeping the house warm.
1. Boiler water temp had been turned down to 120-140. Her boyfriend turned it down to save on heating oil.
2. She was opening the tub hot water faucet wide open.
The Cure?
I turned the aquastat up to 160-180. I told her that the 1/2 pipe can pass around 7 GPM. The coil in the boiler can heat 3.5 GPM.
Stop opening the tub valve all the way.
Checked back two days later and she was a happy camper.
Now I have a coal fired bucket a day plumbed into my hot water boiler and it heats DHW through a plate heat exchanger by syphon. With that extra 40 gallons sitting there we can throw the tub valve wide open and fill the tub as hot as you want it. However don't try it two times in a row. You have to let it perc a little bit after you do that.
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Hmm, now I am getting an idea for a new cheapo system.Now I have a coal fired bucket a day plumbed into my hot water boiler and it heats DHW through a plate heat exchanger by syphon. With that extra 40 gallons sitting there we can throw the tub valve wide open and fill the tub as hot as you want it. However don't try it two times in a row. You have to let it perc a little bit after you do that
So how do I fix this up. Is the damage on the last photo fixable with cement? Does it need to be an iron baseplate or will concrete do? Any idea of BTU output?
I get the idea of a SS plate exchanger but how do I set up a pressure relief? Do I need a separate storage tank? So if I run it in 1.1/4" galv. iron I guess convection will work . This will save me lots in barn hot water and I wish to run it outside in the rain for the summer/spring/fall only. The propain guy is killing me. Specs for the exchanger 20/30/40 plates and how big? Where is my best deal that matches this (Duda diesel?). 304 or 315SS? Cute little spud, I gotta put it to work somehow. A 100 year rest in someones barn is long enough.
Shape a sheet steel patch and bolt it on there with some high temp silicone to seal it up. I have mine sitting on a piece of steel plate I got at the junk yard for $2.00 and ran a bead of silicone to seal the bottom of the little guy to the plate. It works just fine.
I got my heat exchanger from duda diesel. I think it was a 20 plate and it heats the 40 gallons pretty quickly.
I got my heat exchanger from duda diesel. I think it was a 20 plate and it heats the 40 gallons pretty quickly.
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I had hoped the master of a bucket a day would respond. This weekend I will try to repair it.