Need Some HELP From Some of the Experienced Coal Boiler Guys

 
syclone381
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Not sure of the make or model (trying to find out)

Post by syclone381 » Wed. Dec. 02, 2015 5:19 pm

First off I will send you the link to my original build of my coal boiler, gravity fed system I used all last winter. I'm trying to do a little upgrade this year to help the heating but need some help. Here's the original post: Post by syclone381 - Hand Fired Coal Boiler With Convection Hot Water (Gravity)

Here's what I ran into last winter. The system worked very well and I really couldn't complain but I was having a few cast iron radiators at the end of the loop not getting hot or staying hot (kitchen remodel in the late 60s guessing they moved original radiators and replaced with smaller ones) so I wanted to add a circulator pump to the system to help keep the water moving throughout the system. Also when I would bank the fire overnight or when I left for work, when the fire would begin to die I would loose the water temperature and the house wound begin to get cold. With the gravity system it would take some time to get the radiators and house back to temperature because I would have to build the fire back up slowly, if not I would overheat the water to fast and pop the pop off valve slightly.

Plan of attack I was planning. I wanted to add an aquastat to the boiler and control the circulator with it. Here's my problem. I had thought I could use this aquastat to control it the was I wanted but its not seeming that way.

Want I wanted: Say my water temperature is 140 in the boiler, I wanted the pump to kick on when the water temp in the boiler dropped and after the water temp reached the 140 mark it would shut off and use the gravity feature so the house doesn't become a sauna.

What the aquastat instructions say: prevents circulation of water that's not hot enough. Breaks R-W contacts for circulator circuit at temperature setting minus differential; remakes the R-W contacts when the temperature is reached.

With this happening the water is going to circulate at its hottest and make the house even hotter. When buying this aquastat I thought I could use it either way but in reading the directions its not looking that way. Am I reading something wrong or is there SOME way I can control the pump as planned? Attached are some picture of what I've done so far. Thanks for your help in advance Adam

Also.... how long will a circulator pump last running it all the time?

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franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Dec. 02, 2015 6:01 pm

It seems you have a reverse aquastat. By adding a relay and thermostat to control it the circulator will stop when the room thermostat is satisfied. You will still get gravity heat though

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Dec. 02, 2015 6:34 pm

Use the R and B contacts to shut off the pump when set point is reached.

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Wed. Dec. 02, 2015 6:43 pm

Isn't a 6006A a double throw aquastat? What does the manual say regarding when the systems hot wire is passed through the B-W contact?

You have an odd request. If I'm understanding you correctly you only want the circulator to run when the water is on the cold end of the spectrum, and you want it to not run when it is on the hot end of the spectrum (at which juncture you want the system to simply thermosyphon). Is that correct?

 
syclone381
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Not sure of the make or model (trying to find out)

Post by syclone381 » Wed. Dec. 02, 2015 8:43 pm

Yes I know its a strange request but my whole system is strange. I had SO many people in my local area tell me gravity fed system would never work. I really didn't the circulator but I figured it would help keep the water moving through the system. My main reason for this was to keep from killing the circulators from having them run all the time. I bought this aquastat thinking it would work but it seems to be backwards.

Using the other terminals don't seem to work. From the way I'm understanding the directions I need a low limit switch like off an oil furnace.
lsayre wrote:Isn't a 6006A a double throw aquastat? What does the manual say regarding when the systems hot wire is passed through the B-W contact?

You have an odd request. If I'm understanding you correctly you only want the circulator to run when the water is on the cold end of the spectrum, and you want it to not run when it is on the hot end of the spectrum (at which juncture you want the system to simply thermosyphon). Is that correct?

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Wed. Dec. 02, 2015 11:20 pm

The action you described is that of a B aquastat. An A aquastat will break contact on temperature rise when set point is reached as Rob stated.

 
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Post by ddahlgren » Mon. Dec. 07, 2015 1:24 am

Are the radiators piped series or parallel? If series not much you can do if parallel close off the feed water to the warmer radiators so end ones get hotter water. Insulating the mains sure helps a bunch as well to not have basement like a sauna and house cold. I am assuming you are using large piping that looks more like steam than hot water. If willing to use electricity some sort of stepper motor on air inlet run by boiler temps for high temp shut down and thermostat calling for heat would be ideal. No matter what I doubt you will ever get the same results as a multi zone system. While central heat it just does not balance all that perfectly all the time.


 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Dec. 07, 2015 9:35 am

I would raise the boiler temp above the 140* that you posted yours runs at,cold water will not thermosyhpon . As far as circulators go, I use the TACO 007 which runs for a whole yr on $60 electric running 24/7/366 & have them last for quite a few yrs.I have never really documented the lifespan of them but even a few yrs is worth their cost @ $ 80 each.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Mon. Dec. 07, 2015 9:47 am

You need a triple aquastat for what you want. The temp is way to low, the system is full of oxygen. Oxygen disassociates from water at 153°, so it is best to run it up to 160° or so for a high limit.

 
syclone381
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Not sure of the make or model (trying to find out)

Post by syclone381 » Thu. Jan. 07, 2016 8:31 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:I would raise the boiler temp above the 140* that you posted yours runs at,cold water will not thermosyhpon . As far as circulators go, I use the TACO 007 which runs for a whole yr on $60 electric running 24/7/366 & have them last for quite a few yrs.I have never really documented the lifespan of them but even a few yrs is worth their cost @ $ 80 each.
I'm running a TACO 007. I was unsure if I could run it all the time. My winter here in PA has been very mild so far and I haven't been burning my coal stove much. I'm running the boiler right now and the water temp in the system is around 130* and the house is staying comfortable. When I first bought this house I was told by A A LOT of locals and friends that I could never run this system as a gravity system and I proved them wrong when I ran this all last winter strictly gravity. As stated above, the only reason I added this circulator was to push water to a radiator that was moved and or replaced by a remodel of the house in the late 60s. I still have one radiator upstairs I can't get hot water to, just gets a little warm. It's the bedroom right above the kitchen so I'm guessing they tampered with the lines going to it also during the remodel. Thanks for your help. I plan to try running the circulator more buy turning the temp down so it kicks on sooner. If the fire goes out it will shut off then.

 
syclone381
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Not sure of the make or model (trying to find out)

Post by syclone381 » Thu. Jan. 07, 2016 8:36 pm

coaledsweat wrote:You need a triple aquastat for what you want. The temp is way to low, the system is full of oxygen. Oxygen disassociates from water at 153°, so it is best to run it up to 160° or so for a high limit.
If I run the system at 160* it will roast me right out of the house. This is a gravity fed system. I heat the house buy heating the water in the system. If I want the house hotter I bump up the water temp but the house seems to stay around 70 to 72 with the water temp at 130. When the outside temps drop I need to crank it up some but its really not needed at this time.

 
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CoalHeat
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Post by CoalHeat » Thu. Jan. 07, 2016 10:12 pm

I'm thinking you can either have a thermosyphon or a circulator system but not both. With the circulator you can run the boiler at higher temps and eliminate the dissolved air, but you would really need to install a flow check valve in the system.

 
syclone381
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Not sure of the make or model (trying to find out)

Post by syclone381 » Fri. Feb. 26, 2016 4:25 pm

Just an update guys. What I actually did was set my circulation pump to run most of the time. I have it set to turn on at 120* and it will shut off if the water temp drops below 90*. with the water circulating through the system at all times it seem to keep the house at a consistent temperature. With the water in the system circulating all the time at around 110* to 120* the house stays around 70* to 74* with the outside temperatures ranging from 15* to 30*. When the outside temperatures drop below the 15* mark I have to crank the stove a little harder but for the most part I'm very please with the way everything is working. SO glad to have consistent temps upstairs and downstairs, unlike last year when the upstairs bathroom was ranging from 80* to 85* with the flue going through that room and also having a cast iron radiator in that room producing heat too.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Fri. Feb. 26, 2016 5:40 pm

Your boiler is going to rust badly at those temps. I suggest you run the boiler hotter and use a feed and bleed to regulate the loop temp.

 
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Post by McGiever » Fri. Feb. 26, 2016 9:07 pm

There are often times more than one way to do things...this is one of those times. ;)

When later it becomes rather obivious that the vessel is damaged it will then be too late to change things. :sick:


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