Ongoing Problem With Fields Type M Baro-Damper Sticking Open

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 11:57 am

Cover the Baro with foil and observe the draft through a burn cycle.

 
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 12:58 pm

Clean again with solvent/thinner to remove that freshly added oil, you can use a old toothbrush and get things really rinsed and clean there and then...
For lube get some door lock graphite and dab or puff some on the rod ends and the pivot points. Wiggle the flap assembly left and right vigorously then add some more graphite and repeat.
Graphite is non-oily and good for any heat.
Find it at any hardware and/or automotive parts store. :)

 
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 3:02 pm

Latest efforts:

1) Cleaned everything off with a toothbrush and then dry graphited the two bearing points per McGiever's instructions.

2) Drilled a hole and then inserted a long bolt (with nut and lock washer) into the Tee behind the flapper door of the baro damper at the point where it is a tad less than half open. The door now hits the shaft of the bolt upon opening and this stops it from opening any more than a tad less than half way. Type M's are significantly different from Type RC's, and have way more opening potential. I believe I recall where Rob mentioned having done something like this several years ago.

3) Moved the baro's balance weight well forward to raise the chimney drafts trigger point for opening the baro.

All of the above measures have (for now at least) vastly improved the doors ability to close without sticking open. No indications of sticking open presently.

I will need some colder temps and/or wind to see where this puts things with respect to 0.08". The draft is holding steady at 0.03" presently while not firing. Firing seems to bring the draft up to only about 0.05". With the weight where I presently have it I may well have it set for opening at about 0.1" presently, but at least it is closing like a champ. Some wind or better draft will tell me where things stand.

I'm not sure that even at -20 degrees outside my chimneys natural draft exceeds 0.08" without some degree of wind assist, and without the boiler fireing.


 
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Post by franco b » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 3:47 pm

All the field draft controls I have seen use two different methods of achieving pivot points of minimal friction. The more expensive use a bar with sharp V rocking in a V with much wider sides or angle. The pivot rolls on its point in the larger V, but any departure from a sharp V, meaning any rounding of the upper V means an increase in sliding friction rather than rolling which has much less. The only reason for the bottom V is to assure location. A flat surface is better in terms of long term use but needs more clearance because it can shift.

Th RC uses the simpler method of a round shaft rolling on a flat surface. This is cheaper to make and is actually better in terms of sensitivity but needs more clearance because the round shaft or pin moves the flap inward or outward as it rolls. Neither method should need any lubrication and if lubrication helps, that would indicate sliding friction rather than rolling and wear at some point. Precision balances use jeweled V blocks for that reason. Antique clocks use hardened steel. Cheap clocks use soft steel on steel or brass. All need work after 100 years or so. V blocks for pendulum suspension has been largely replaced by a thin spring but even new cuckoo clocks still use a variation.

 
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 4:22 pm

franco b wrote:All the field draft controls I have seen use two different methods of achieving pivot points of minimal friction. The more expensive use a bar with sharp V rocking in a V with much wider sides or angle. The pivot rolls on its point in the larger V, but any departure from a sharp V, meaning any rounding of the upper V means an increase in sliding friction rather than rolling which has much less. The only reason for the bottom V is to assure location. A flat surface is better in terms of long term use but needs more clearance because it can shift.

Th RC uses the simpler method of a round shaft rolling on a flat surface. This is cheaper to make and is actually better in terms of sensitivity but needs more clearance because the round shaft or pin moves the flap inward or outward as it rolls. Neither method should need any lubrication and if lubrication helps, that would indicate sliding friction rather than rolling and wear at some point. Precision balances use jeweled V blocks for that reason. Antique clocks use hardened steel. Cheap clocks use soft steel on steel or brass. All need work after 100 years or so. V blocks for pendulum suspension has been largely replaced by a thin spring but even new cuckoo clocks still use a variation.
Sounds like my real (long term) solution is a new barometric damper.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 4:33 pm

The point I was trying to make earlier was that depending on your draft, the Baro may not be needed at all.


 
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Post by franco b » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 4:59 pm

Any misalignment of the two bottom Vs is more critical than the open design of the RC. You might try laying the control on a flat surface to see if it rocks.

 
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 9:13 pm

Here's what is being talked about...

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