Anticipated Coal Consumption Vs. Temp. & Degree Days

If you are in need of a more conventional heating solution that requires no power look no further. Unlike an automated stoker boiler these units do not require power to generate heat. They can be set up wiith pumps like a typical boiler or a gravity fed sytem insuring heat during power failures. Models include many New Yorker coal boilers, EFM WCB-24 and others. Some of these units can also burn wood.
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lsayre
Member
Posts: 12183
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 12:29 pm

Based on data I collected all of last season and this season to date, I have charted my anticipated nominal daily coal consumption vs. outside temperature (F.) and also vs. heating degree days. The 'Y axis' is for both daily degree days and daily pounds of coal, and I should have titled it as such. Attached here is the PDF format of my chart.
Attachments
Coal_Consumption.pdf
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-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.


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whistlenut
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Posts: 3549
Joined: Sat. Mar. 17, 2007 6:29 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ & V-Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks,Itasca 415,Jensen, NYer 130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska, EFM, Keystoker, Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska, Keystoker-2,Leisure Line
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska, Gibraltar, Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Ford, Jensen, NYer, Van Wert,
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwoods
Coal Size/Type: Barley, Buck, Rice ,Nut, Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB
Location: Central NH, Concord area

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 12:40 pm

Larry, you need to go outside and play with the dawg! I'm calling Dr. Phil to see if we can get you back up on the tracks, you are a derailed individual! :D :whistle: :bang: :mad3: :notsure:

Nice job on the graph.......now what?
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a 'piece of human solid waste' by the clean end." More true today....

User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 12183
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 12:53 pm

whistlenut wrote:Larry, you need to go outside and play with the dawg! I'm calling Dr. Phil to see if we can get you back up on the tracks, you are a derailed individual! :D :whistle: :bang: :mad3:

Nice job on the graph.......now what?
In a strange way I believe that I am playing with the dawg. :) Thanks for the complement on the graph!!!!
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

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Dennis
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Posts: 1066
Joined: Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 5:44 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size
Location: Pottstown,Pa

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 1:11 pm

If we knew the answers to all your questions,we would all be on easy street."It is what it is",just keep shoveling coal into the boiler and be happy with the money your saving by using coal.

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KLook
Member
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun. Feb. 17, 2008 1:08 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000
Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 1:27 pm

I'm with you Larry, but I am going to go play golf. 8-) Does that count as playing with the dog?

Kevin

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Rob R.
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Posts: 11340
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 1:33 pm

Add a Z axis for wind speed, then I will be impressed. ;)

User avatar
whistlenut
Member
Posts: 3549
Joined: Sat. Mar. 17, 2007 6:29 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ & V-Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks,Itasca 415,Jensen, NYer 130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska, EFM, Keystoker, Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska, Keystoker-2,Leisure Line
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska, Gibraltar, Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Ford, Jensen, NYer, Van Wert,
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwoods
Coal Size/Type: Barley, Buck, Rice ,Nut, Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB
Location: Central NH, Concord area

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 1:37 pm

Larry, you are an interesting guy, and do ask some great questions, ...and I'm laughing at you response....you obviously have a sense of humor as well. I know that Dennis speaks just as I do....it is what it is......

Like the lawyer that is defending a client who has created an chemical spill with a pH if 11. His lawyer is not familiar with the baseline of neutral at 7.0, so his defense is to say: Your Honor, my client will be able to lower the pH of this spill all the way back to zero, if given time and resources. That obviously creates another problem....perhaps greater that the first. Open mouth, insert FOOT....CHOMP down on said foot. End of story!
Sometimes things are not as they seem, but we will all get along, because that is what life is all about. Enjoy this fine early winter day...and the next 8 or 9 so they say. Be thankful for all you have , and remember to check in on those who aren't so
lucky. Cold is on the right, hot is on the left....and s**t runs down hill. Also, there is NO air adjustment or feed adjustment on AA's or AHS boilers. Don't ask why, just accept it as written.

Z for wind.....damned engineers!!! Yanche....HELP!!! :bang: :help2: :taz: :crutch: bop2
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a 'piece of human solid waste' by the clean end." More true today....

User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 12183
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 1:42 pm

Whistlenut, I always (OK, mostly always) value your posts, and I see you to be quite an interesting guy as well. :yes:
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.


User avatar
whistlenut
Member
Posts: 3549
Joined: Sat. Mar. 17, 2007 6:29 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ & V-Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks,Itasca 415,Jensen, NYer 130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska, EFM, Keystoker, Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska, Keystoker-2,Leisure Line
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska, Gibraltar, Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Ford, Jensen, NYer, Van Wert,
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwoods
Coal Size/Type: Barley, Buck, Rice ,Nut, Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB
Location: Central NH, Concord area

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 1:47 pm

I guess that deserves a 'Thanks, Larry". I get derailed once in a while and like they say about opinions, they are just like a**holes. everyone has one. Actually, some seem to have more, but that situation was well represented last week Tuesday.

Another 4 for the gimp...... :eek2: :nono: :help: :mrgreen: :hammer:
Last edited by whistlenut on Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a 'piece of human solid waste' by the clean end." More true today....

User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 12183
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 1:49 pm

Rob R. wrote:Add a Z axis for wind speed, then I will be impressed. ;)
Rob, are you seeing correlation of coal consumption to wind speed?
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

User avatar
whistlenut
Member
Posts: 3549
Joined: Sat. Mar. 17, 2007 6:29 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ & V-Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks,Itasca 415,Jensen, NYer 130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska, EFM, Keystoker, Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska, Keystoker-2,Leisure Line
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska, Gibraltar, Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Ford, Jensen, NYer, Van Wert,
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwoods
Coal Size/Type: Barley, Buck, Rice ,Nut, Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB
Location: Central NH, Concord area

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 1:59 pm

You can't leave it alone, can you????? Is the next category going to be " IF you noticed an increased consumption in coal as related to the wind speed, is it possible to isolate and graph this relationship.......HOWEVER, we will have 66 more categories about the R value of your exterior insulation; window R and U value, roof pitch...asphalt or metal? Grass or astro-turf in VT I'm pretty sure...... Year constructed, Post and Beam, Stick Frame? Straw Bale Home? Steel frame and siding........
radiant heat? a Hybrid" Wood and or coal heat? Manure pit heat extraction method? ......it has no end.............. :wtf: :alone: :cry2: :secret: :help:
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a 'piece of human solid waste' by the clean end." More true today....

User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 11340
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 2:00 pm

Temperature equal, my coal consumption can double if the wind is howling.

franco b
Site Moderator
Posts: 8416
Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
Location: Kent CT

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 3:35 pm

lsayre wrote:Based on data I collected all of last season and this season to date, I have charted my anticipated nominal daily coal consumption vs. outside temperature (F.) and also vs. heating degree days. The 'Y axis' is for both daily degree days and daily pounds of coal, and I should have titled it as such. Attached here is the PDF format of my chart.
Good work. Being objective is how things are made better.
I wonder why the two lines are not equally spaced. It seems the colder it gets the stove burns relatively more. It must be that efficiency goes down at some point in the firing rate. You might be able to determine the point of maximum efficiency.

Pacowy
Member
Posts: 2731
Joined: Tue. Sep. 04, 2007 10:14 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite
Location: Dalton, MA

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 4:03 pm

I think the assumption that you can use the same scale for degree days and coal consumption is making it harder to see what the data mean. To me is looks like the coal consumption per degree day goes down as the temperature goes down. Like at 50 degrees around 25 lb gets used for 15 d-d = 1.67 lb/dd, at 5 deg 93 lb gets used for 60 dd = 1.55 lb/dd and at -25 deg 138 lb gets used for 90 dd = 1.53 lb/dd. It looks like running longer to satisfy the heavy loads contributes to slightly greater efficiency relative to the lighter loads, which seems like what should be expected.

Mike

User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 11340
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Sun. Nov. 18, 2012 4:06 pm

There is a minimum quantity that gets spread out over the degree days...e.g. 20 lbs on an summer day (fire maintenance and DHW). So the greater the heating load, the less coal that is used purely to maintain a fire.

Kind of like your electric bill, which includes a base charge for the meter...the more KWH you use, the cheaper each one works out to be.


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