New Boiler Temps

macdabs · Post by **macdabs** » Wed. Mar. 02, 2011 3:56 pm

cabinover wrote:Hope the OP didn't have a heart attack or something as dire over that boiler....

Oh don't say that I lost my older brother 3 months a go to one of those at 46!

Last Sat. I went to HWZ Coal and got a ton of Blaschak, very nice people. He said I should of got a EFM, gave me some pointers and wished me luck. I had a awesome fire started Sunday morning boiler averaged 120-130* all day. Our temps were pretty nice all day so I let the fire burn out Monday in disappointment. I was in the shop at lunchtime and the temp with the warm days and cold nights is still 60* as of today so I know the heat call for the boiler is not that great to only drop 5* in the last few days.

I am going to be honest after four weeks of messing with the boiler my wife topped off the heating oil and fired our basement pellet stove and I shut the pumps off to the house . My buddy is a commercial heating/plumber and is coming over with a rep from Burnham to look things over on the BTU output . he thinks the primary loop pump is cooling the boiler quicker than it can recover.. Even if I shut all the zone pumps off the primary pump still has to run . I am hoping to be around Friday to meet with the dealers tech and see what solutions they have.

Mac

Sting · Post by **Sting** » Wed. Mar. 02, 2011 4:30 pm

didn't we ask about 10 pages back if the boiler made temperature when it was isolated from loads and pumps - and at that time didn't you reply
no
not on coal

Didn't we point out the tremendous possible loss in the energy transfer loops to the house and didn't you reply that there was none?

NOW___ your going to be honest?

oliver power · Post by **oliver power** » Thu. Mar. 03, 2011 7:33 am

cabinover wrote:Hope the OP didn't have a heart attack or something as dire over that boiler....

Not Me! My set-up performs like a swiss clock. I simply run out of throuble shooting thoughts for macdabs boiler. From the looks of things, so didn't everyone else. I think Stings last reply summed it up.

macdabs · Post by **macdabs** » Thu. Mar. 03, 2011 12:17 pm

I shut off all the load pumps , the primary pump just circulates the water to the boiler .. I can shut the zone pumps off and the valves for no heat . My primary pump was wired into the aquastat to come on when the boiler makes temp around 140* I ended up with it set all the way down to 100* since the boiler will not travel much pass 120* . My floor heat pump was set at 110* and I added temp guages on each zone at the house and shop end. I have the house loop at the present time is feed from oil boiler to keep the loop circulating and warm. The Oil boiler has had no problem heating the loop to the shop and the temp on the feed and return is very little. I can heat the shop with the oil boiler and the house if I want to spent $3.39 gallon . The oil boiler kicks the coal boilers ass and my wallet at the same time am I missing something?

Mac

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Thu. Mar. 03, 2011 6:04 pm

Any findings in regards to Samson valve being installed incorrectly?

Was posted earlier that in some applications it is installed reversed from what might seem logical.

Never see any response to that possibility from OP (original poster).

macdabs · Post by **macdabs** » Fri. Mar. 04, 2011 6:29 am

They are supposed to come and look at the valve today.. I will be on the phone calling to find out when as soon as the clock hits 9 and they open. The Vents the Samson valve controls have been wide open or half way open when the stove is fired with coal . I thought the main purpose of the Samson valve was to close the vents when the boiler makes temp by rducing the draft?

Mac

Post by **Rob R.** » Fri. Mar. 04, 2011 7:21 am

If the inlet damper was wide open during your coal burning trials, the Sampson control is not your problem.

cabinover · Post by **cabinover** » Fri. Mar. 04, 2011 8:16 am

oliver power wrote: That's a shame to pull it back out. All that work, All that money. If nothing is in the way, I'd first try sliding a slightly smaller diameter stove pipe down into the boiler through the existing smoke outlet. Slide it through the stove pipe you already have, and down into the boiler. Run a screw /bolt through the hole you put in the collar for measuring draft. That would hold the smaller diameter pipe in place. If you have room, put the collar/ring on the pipe, and slide it up from the firebox, and not even touch the existing stove pipe. In other words, trap the heat in the boiler. Make the draft pull the fumes down 1-1/2 - 2 feet, then up the smoke stack/chimney. The trapped heat would get absorbed into boiler. Who knows, that simple little experiment may turn that boiler into a fine heating machine. If it works, maybe you could get DS to make it right with you. Maybe at least pay you for your time/frustrations, in exchange for this simple little design change they NEED to do.

I'd revisit this little post right here before I did anything beyond getting the dealer/boilermaker in there. Certainly would consider it before yanking it out of service unless the dealer is willing to eat the cost and then some.
I don't see why you couldn't very quickly throw a piece of single wall pipe inside your metalbestos pipe to at least see if that's what the problem is. If that worked you could have a piece of heavier gauge pipe welded in permanently.

I don't recall if you installed a barometric damper or not and don't feel like looking through 11 pages again.

macdabs · Post by **macdabs** » Fri. Mar. 04, 2011 11:09 am

I spoke with the dealer he came up with a solution that another dealer has been doing with the DS boilers . I guess they have built a air induced fan with a vent that will be operated by a aquastat. This will remove the mechanical flapper doors and Samson Valve to a forced air induced system. He has one coming and scheduled to be installed the end of next week

. It makes sense and I must not be the only one that has had issues if another dealer has went through the time and effort to start building these kits . I am going to stay positve and will keep everyone posted on the outcome !!

KLook · Post by **KLook** » Fri. Mar. 04, 2011 11:29 am

Correct me if i'm wrong someone, but most forced draft stoves burn small coal(rice, buckwheat) that seriously reduce natural draft in the appliance. Hence using small coal to "damp" down a strong fire and increase burn time. If your stove will not burn nut, stove, ?, coal well, I would think that you have a very poor draft and inducing a positive pressure might be dangerous. Make sure the CO detector and maybe 2 of them are working well.

Kevin

Post by **Rob R.** » Fri. Mar. 04, 2011 11:34 am

If your stove will not burn nut, stove, ?, coal well, I would think that you have a very poor draft and inducing a positive pressure might be dangerous.

He already checked the draft:

I worry that the forced draft could create a firebox full of clinkers, but we will have to wait and see.

-Rob

macdabs · Post by **macdabs** » Fri. Mar. 04, 2011 1:18 pm

[quote][/quote] worry that the forced draft could create a firebox full of clinkers, but we will have to wait and see.

-Rob

The way he explained it to me is the blower speed is adjustable and has some kind of vent door to replace the one inlet on the unit. The other flap is replaced with a plate.
Anything is worth a try at this point and if not I will replace the unit and be ready for this fall with something. I am determine not to get anymore heating oil and contribute to the growth of the middle east and oil speculators.

Mac

Post by **Rob R.** » Fri. Mar. 04, 2011 1:27 pm

Tell them to bring the fan kit, and to be prepared to bring the boiler back with them if it won't build temperature.

-Rob

macdabs · Post by **macdabs** » Fri. Mar. 04, 2011 1:52 pm

Rob,
I noticed you have a EFM , how stable is the temp on it? How long after a heat call will it take before it is @ 180* again?

Just curious,
'Thanks,
Mac

Post by **Rob R.** » Fri. Mar. 04, 2011 2:29 pm

Mac, I don't hold my EFM at 180 degrees. The aquastat is set with a low of 160, high of 200, and a differential of 10. Between the low limit and the timer cycles it usually idles somewhere around 160 degrees. On a call for heat the stoker and primary circulator start, and will run until the heat call is satisfied...or until the high limit is reached. I run it at 5 teeth (out of a possible 10) teeth of feed, and it responds pretty well at this setting. It rarely reaches the high limit, and most of the time when I've looked at the gauge during a heat call it is 170-180 degrees. On a very long call for heat (-20 windchill day) the temperature can creep up to 190-195 degrees.

If I were to just fire the stoker with no load on the boiler, I think it would go from 160 to 180 degrees in about 5 to 10 minutes, depending on how "lively" the fire in the pot was when I started.

I don't want to derail this thread into an EFM discussion, so if you have any other questions just shoot me a PM.

-Rob