Coal for Sale

k9 Bara · Post by **k9 Bara** » Wed. Oct. 10, 2012 8:18 pm

Don't ride the fence on this, tell us how you really feel?

Be careful, I was an a$$hole for implying the coal should be tested before buying large amounts.

whistlenut · Post by **whistlenut** » Thu. Oct. 11, 2012 8:27 am

...and K9 had the correct forecast: Move slowly when traveling down a path not yet frequented. I'm guessing this will work out to be OK for hand fed guys, but more of a problem with removing ash than lower btu.

freetown fred · Post by **freetown fred** » Thu. Oct. 11, 2012 4:34 pm

You betcha

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Fri. Oct. 12, 2012 11:06 am

Pacowy wrote:This week I've been testing the Newport vs. Jeddo. Both are called buck, but both have a lot of undersized pieces. The testing consists of "normal" offseason DHW runs of 7-30 minutes plus a few longer runs to make some steam. Stoker set on 8 teeth = 40 lb/hr of feed; air varied based on fire appearance in steam runs to try to approximate EFM fire pattern.

The Jeddo went first. In a little under 4 hours of cumulative run time spread over 3 days, 154.9 lb were burned and 20.1 lb of ash and unburned coal were produced, for a total of 13.0% ash and unburned. I believe Jeddo normally runs 8-9% ash in lab tests, so 4-5% of the coal went unburned. To those who aspire to 0 percent unburned this may seem like a lot, but the OE manuals I've seen say the normal amount of unburned should be around 10-15%, and that an excessively low unburned coal percentage is a sign of too much air. In fact, the ash ring during the test was bigger than ideal, indicating too much air. If the test were repeated I'd expect the unburned percentage might be higher.

Then came the Newport. Early on I got the impression that this coal needs long runs to fully catch, so I stretched out the runs (most between 14-37 minutes). It also seems to be less dense than the Jeddo. In a little less cumulative run time than the Jeddo, 133.9 lb were burned and 30.2 lb of ash and unburned coal were produced, for a total of 22.6% ash and unburned. The visible amount of unburned coal was higher than it was with the Jeddo, the fire looked different and the ash removal system worked harder. The coal did hold the fire for over 10 hours without the stoker running, and gave overall performance closer to reasonable than I was expecting.

Mike

I retested the Jeddo with a better ash ring. 309.8 lb burned/55.7 lb ash and unburned coal/18.0% ash and unburned. The 18.0 percent corresponds pretty closely to the 8-9% ash from lab tests plus 10% minimum recommended unburned for an efficient stoker fire. Scientific precision or random chance - you be the judge!

Even though it increased from 13.0% in the first test, the ash and unburned coal remained much less coarse than it was with the Newport. The Newport undoubtedly has some issues, but I still plan to give it another chance when my DHW boiler project becomes operational.

Mike

amcarterlawncare · Post by **amcarterlawncare** » Fri. Oct. 12, 2012 6:31 pm

Hey guys,

I've delivered around a dozen loads of NA and so far I have only had one guy say that he has to mix it with bagged coal to keep it going. I've had a few refferals from NA delivery customers so they must find it acceptable to pass it on to their friends.

I now deal with Harmony and Newport only (unless someone specifically wan'ts another brand) and I try to honestly explain to people that it isn't the best coal and probably below average, but for the price I can deliver it for compared to other mines it's still a better value IMHO, but that's for the customers to decide, and I do my best to explain...

With many local "delivered" prices I'm giving people being lower that UAE Harmony's "pick up" price it's hard to think it's not a better deal.

As said above I think a lot depends on what your system is and how picky you are...

I'm not affiliated with NA in any way, just wanted to throw in my 2cents.

Austin

steamup · Post by **steamup** » Sat. Oct. 13, 2012 8:51 pm

I am trying to give this supplier a fair evaluation. "A little below average" is salesman talk. Bottom line is now it burns and the ultimately the cost in dollars per million btu's.

I have had no problem with it burning. Just I have been getting at least double the ash (in two different boilers) as I get from another coal I have. I only got a couple of small loads and could have gotten coal that may have not been average of what is produced.

I hope to test some coal from different sources to see what ash I get but it will be a while before I get around to it.

Right now it appears to still be a value despite the high ash but I am still pondering if it is worth the savings.

tight-group · Post by **tight-group** » Wed. Oct. 24, 2012 8:19 pm

anthony7812 wrote:It isnt the ash that's a bitch it's all the damn rocks

I'm looking at the same thing the buckets of ash are as heavy as the coal coming in
I may be able to do my driveway with the stone I'm pulling out, couldn't keep it going
first two burns so I'm still in the adjustment stage does burn nice and hot clinkers the
size of my fist.

anthony7812 · Post by **anthony7812** » Thu. Oct. 25, 2012 9:55 am

tight-group wrote:
anthony7812 wrote:It isnt the ash that's a bitch it's all the damn rocks
I'm looking at the same thing the buckets of ash are as heavy as the coal coming in
I may be able to do my driveway with the stone I'm pulling out, couldn't keep it going
first two burns so I'm still in the adjustment stage does burn nice and hot clinkers the
size of my fist.

Oh she does burn hot, I can only keep a fire for about 4 or 5 days. Rocks just too many rocks. I have been picking the most I can out. Just found that keeping a large bag of charcoal handy is a blessing for re starts. I did pick enough of the nice shiner pieces out for 2 5 gallon pales and that burned and shook like a dream, the rest does fill potholes nicely.

tight-group · Post by **tight-group** » Sat. Oct. 27, 2012 3:18 pm

tight-group wrote:
anthony7812 wrote:It isnt the ash that's a bitch it's all the damn rocks
I'm looking at the same thing the buckets of ash are as heavy as the coal coming in
I may be able to do my driveway with the stone I'm pulling out, couldn't keep it going
first two burns so I'm still in the adjustment stage does burn nice and hot clinkers the
size of my fist.

It is burning HOT requires very little draft once started the weather is still too warm here
but the house was 80 this morning with some fire still in the box, I shook it down and heaped
some fresh on the hot spot to see if I can keep it goin. Looks like it's gona work just fine!

mattcoalburner · Post by **mattcoalburner** » Sat. Oct. 27, 2012 9:07 pm

WOW,
I was reading this post today, and their sure are some gullable folks! After seeing some of those ash pictures alll I can say is you get what you pat for!

steamup · Post by **steamup** » Mon. Nov. 12, 2012 9:42 pm

Just in from my friend with the outdoor furnace that I got a 800 lb sample for. Two thumbs down on the coal. He couldn't keep his fire going and the rocks plugged his grates.

mattcoalburner · Post by **mattcoalburner** » Mon. Nov. 12, 2012 10:33 pm

steamup wrote:Fired the AA130 earlier in the week because of cool nights. Loaded a bucket of last years ash in and about 15 -20 lbs of my normal coal. Put in the 130 plus pounds of buckwheat/pea mix I got from NA. Fire off the unit and after it came up to temp and stablized, I put in a clean ash pan and leveled off the barrel over the auger with coal. I have run the past few days but loads have been light as the weather was warmer than predicted. I have been heating DHW and taking the chill off of the house in the mornings.

Proceedures are less than scientific but the only thing I have to test coal by.

The results are 116 lbs coal burned with 40 lbs ash produced. This is 34-35% ash. Some rather large clinkers spit out as well as various unburned material.

I do not know what my normal coal runs but will try to monitor it this next week. However, at $100 a ton, this high ash still results in about a 20% savings over $180 a ton premimum coal. Less if you get your premimum coal at a lower price.

I am curious as to how much ash my normal coal will produce with the AA runing at low loads. This next week may tell. Obviously, the coal is not burned as completely at low loads.

I plan to shut down the AA in a couple of weeks and fire up the keystoker burning 100% NA rice coal. I will monitor the results and post them as they come available.

Weather has been too warm for my friend with the hand fired to burn his nut coal yet.

edit - update 9/24/12 7:30 pm. Last 30 hours of cool weather and hot showers burned 81 lbs of coal with 15.6 lbs of ash. About 19%. I am sure I am at the end of the NA coal in the AA130 hopper.

Your normal coal should not have any higher than about 12% ash, any good coal is 12% or lower

steamup · Post by **steamup** » Tue. Nov. 13, 2012 8:14 am

Matt,

Normal coal that has been cleaned would be within that range. NA is selling coal straight from the digs, only crushing and screening it. They are relcaiming previously mined areas if the information supplied earlier in this post is correct. They sold it as such. As a result there is much more "other stuff" in the coal. Some find that tolerable for the price savings, others do not.

There are places such as UAE that do not process their coal but UAE is direct mining it and is able to maintain the quality as they are not stripping out the mine.

whistlenut · Post by **whistlenut** » Tue. Nov. 13, 2012 9:09 am

NA is clearly advertized to be just what it is. That is fair. You get just what you pay for, and if it works, then that is just fine, if not, don't use it. The hand-fed guys should have no problems, just heavier ash pans...and grates that lock up on long strokes. Short and sweet are the correct instructions for shaking a coal grate, anyway. If you need rock for a drainage product, or your driveway, once again you are a winner!!! Mixed signals here, but after 43 years of buying bulk, I'm trusting my suppliers. Life is all about choices, this one is yours!

freetown fred · Post by **freetown fred** » Tue. Nov. 13, 2012 11:05 am

WN, ya think the analytical crew will catch on after the 20th time all that was explained??? I'm having serious doubts

It is what it is & was never represented as anything else!!! GOT IT????????