Top Secret LL Boiler Spy Photos

Here are some spy photos of the new LL boiler, two are currently under construction, testing should start next week. I'll update the story line as we progress, delivery of the first production units is scheduled for August 1st as long as the UL testing goes as planned.

Preliminary Specs are as follows:
110K input btus based on Pocono Feeder (we feel it will test out to 120K or so)
~30 gallon water capacity
Boiler is double pass, tube type boiler, top and base are separate pieces
Overall dimensions without jacket are approx 22"W X 52"L X 49"T
Jacket will be galvanized or painted with 2" insulation
DHW coil interface is std 7.5" bolt circle dry flange, can be fitted with 5 or 7.5 GPM
1.5" supply and return piping, single outlet and single inlet
2 3/4" welded pipe fitting outlets on side, 2 1/2" and 1 3/4" welded pipe fitting outlets on top
Hydronic only, no steam model planned for initial production run
Controls will be standard Honeywell high limit, triple aquastat, timer for outfire, and 30PSIG PRV as base model, other options available as testing is completed
250 # coal hopper capacity
Right and left hand configuration by swapping parts, so delivered unit can be either persuasion
10 Gauge Base is made with built in access to flue area for fly ash removal, can also be converted to right or left by swapping parts
A number 1, 2, or even 3 ash tub will easily fit through the large base door opening
Projected retail price around $4,000 with controls and ash pan

Thanks for the "Secret" Pics. I hope the owners don't find out you took these.

Hhhmmm, spy photos, tell us it will run on rice or buck? Dual fuel maybe? Hhhmm, I could start installing underfloor pex on first floor and baseboard upstairs, sell the AA130 for 2 grand.............as long as I can get a 2 digit serial number first edition.

Double pass???? I like the horizontal tubes but

5 fire tubes left and back on the 5 right???

Appears that wouldn't/couldn't support that much input

Is there going to be a heat shield to protect the tubes? I like the double pass at the end. It looks like it will be easy to clean like a harman. What size exhaust flange are you planning? It looks like your design is going to be super efficient. Nice looking design guys!!!!

Sting wrote:Double pass???? I like the horizontal tubes but

5 fire tubes left and back on the 5 right???

Appears that wouldn't/couldn't support that much input

You must be having a senior moment I think it's the inside skin of the boiler head You are looking at

If you guys need a place for field testing, my basement is available!!!!!!!!

[quote="Matthaus"
Boiler is double pass, tube type boiler, top and base are separate pieces
[/quote]

stokerscot wrote: You must be having a senior moment I think it's the inside skin of the boiler head You are looking at

Did I miss the memo that this is a water tube boiler???

Say it isn't so

Any plans to get an ASME rating for 30 psi heating boiler?

The boiler looks great, and a great price as well.

Im still waiting for the top secret pictures of your fire place insert

It's about time someone does it right !

Congratulation LL and wish you the best success for the product, there are many customers awaiting for a product offering the features mentioned.

Thanks for all the comments, yes you are looking at the "inside skin" of the boiler so the tubes are filled with water. No heat shield to protect tubes planned as of yet, but we plan to burn it all summer at very high rates to see the weaknesses, also a dissection will be accomplished to take a look at the projected longevity. I welcome any and all discussion on why a "water tube boiler" is not a good idea. Yes we are working to get the unit ASME rated and stamped for 30 PSIG, welding is accomplished by an ASME certified welder. Unit uses one of our existing grates so is a Rice/Buck coal burning appliance. Flue outlet is 6" for this unit, future larger units will have 8".

Keep the comments coming, of course I do understand that design review by committee based on a few partial completion photos is an entertaining concept at best, but we do like to stir up the discussion and thought process. Thanks.

Oh, and Mozz, I'm sure we can work out some kind of trade!

Matthaus wrote: I welcome any and all discussion on why a "water tube boiler" is not a good idea. Yes we are working to get the unit ASME rated and stamped for 30 PSIG, welding is accomplished by an ASME certified welder. Unit uses one of our existing grates so is a Rice/Buck coal burning appliance. Flue outlet is 6" for this unit, future larger units will have 8".

Keep the comments coming, of course I do understand that design review by committee based on a few partial completion photos is an entertaining concept at best, but we do like to stir up the discussion and thought process. Thanks.

I am not sure you will enjoy my jaded comments regarding this design. So let me answer your quest for discussion on water tube boilers with a question. You have been kind to my questions and comments - I think I may skirt your patience if I vent mine - well here goes.

---> have you ever had to tend one? ( a water tube boiler ) <--

While a water tube is safer and quicker to bring on line/recover when operated as a steam boiler ( less surface area to explode) - if you ever had to crank your upper body into one and clean the outside of the water tubes that run in the fire box -- well you will find something else to do next time. You cannot weld in enough clean out doors and access to ever make that job palatable. Here is a episode of "Dirty Jobs" for sure. You will not want to do it a second time.

Second thought -- think about what happens in a fire tube boiler if a tube fails. Water moves to atmosphere right -- the vessel simply leeks slowly to the outside in only that failed tube - You find it immediately in daily tending. To repair, you simply drive a tapered hardwood plug into each end of the broken fire tube and the system keeps running. Often you can do this because each end is accesable via doors for flue punching and ash trap boxes and the vessel never has to go cold. Repair is done in the off season.
While its possible to also plug a water tube, first you have to determine what tube has fractured - that will not be apparent until the leek is enough to severely curtail or put out the fire -- then the boiler must be taken off line - drained of water - well by this time you may as well roll a new tube in -- do you have a back up?? or has the load gone cold now? This (water tube) is the thinnest part of the vessel and now the thinnest part has fire impinging directly on its surface --

I can go on --- well maybe I better not

NOPE -- no water tube boilers for me now or my next life time thank-you.

I was wondering why you didnt design the boiler like your Bethlehem or an Axeman since you already know all of the ins and outs about them. They seem much more simpler in design then the one you are currently working on.

I must agree with Sting. Been there, done that.