Coalpail.com Forum

found this on youtube. sent the original poster a link to coalpail. hopefully he chimes in.

He is burning Stoker size Montana Sub Bituminous coal. The surface strip mine he buys it from is 10 miles form his home.

I've been on the phone with Joe a number of times since AHS turned me on to his videos a couple years ago and sold me an S130 Had a line on a "free" Kewanee that didn't pan out, so I had to go shopping for real.. I running the same setup as Joe, but have a different mine source for my sub-bit - it's 50 miles from me to the retail supplier of Pyramid Mountain coal, which I think is the only "underground" mine in the PRB.
The coal from Signal Peak is a bit hotter: http://globalcoalsales.com/signal-peak-energys-bu ... ing-ahead/
Small quantity purchase from Signal Peak finally "re-appeared" after not being possible for many years - unless you wanted to buy a whole trainload, you were out of luck. They recently made a deal with a local retailer who they wholesale to exclusively by the semi. When I planned my setup, I wasn't aware that the 50 mile away source was even available, and assumed I'd be going to Wolf Mountain Coal, same as Joe, but it's 150 miles one way for me. So, thinking in large loads, I have a hopper bottom bin capable of storing 30 tons....but as luck would have it, the biggest load I've ever taken in at once was 10 ton....we go past the supplier often enough in our travels that a ton at a time in a bulk bag in the back of my pickup has been more common!

It's definitely not easy burning with this unit and the coal (is there any easy with solid fuel heat?). The latest 5 ton of stoker size that I got was every bit 50% fines. Getting the ashing right and keeping the fire from creeping up the hopper tube has been a struggle. I know for a fact that the temp sensor on the hopper will correctly shut the system down! Been there done that!

I've actually got my eye on a Prill 200 BFS (?) - so it could be that this 2 year old S130 goes on the market sometime in the near future! Pat

Hello Pat,

If your willing to sacrifice a percentage of your fines you could install a chaff/fines screen on the bottom of the auger tube inside the shed that would drop the fines into a garbage can. The fines would drop out as the auger runs to fill the hopper.

you could do this with a fines screen 2-6 feet long and a sheet metal catch bin hanging under the auger with a large hole in it that would let the fines drop into a garbage can.

Do you have the electric eye option controlling the coal height in the hopper or are you filling it using an on-off switch?

It would be worth a phone call to ask AHS if closing off either one third or one half the throat of the coal inlet would be worth pursuing due to the signal peaks sub bituminous coals burning characteristics; short of that an open auger and shell tube system like the Axeman Anderson 130S and 260S would be worth pursuing as the coal would not have the opportunity to burn up into the hopper and the auger would only run when the sled is ashing/moving using a roller chain drive like the Axeman Anderson 130S and 260S.

If you call AHS perhaps they would be interested in the open auger delivery system as an option for western coals and in the process sell more boilers out in Washington, Idaho and the Blue Sky Country?

You would no longer need the AHS hopper and having a smaller bin with a dog house to feed the open auger tube set up would let you keep the electric eye control for the existing auger by shortening the existing auger and tube.

Thinking out loud here while looking at the rain I do not need.

Pat, That Prill sounds like the way to go...exiting solution that needs no special adaptations.

I had thought about filtering on the auger as well. We've set up a little "mini grizzly" to screen off some of the fines, but it's obviously adding labor. My old 60' lift auger that I'm filling the big bin with has enough cracks and holes in it - gave me the same idea ( I know I am creating fines with that auger too). I had the thought of just drilling some holes or cutting slots in the auger as well...the fines could go to the ground for what it's worth, or a some sort of slide to get them out from under the bin, easier to clean up with tractor bucket would save some shoveling. (thinking I need to find the right stove for the shop in which to burn the fines so they don't go completely to waste!)....I don't like the thought of cutting a chunk out of that auger, but cutting some slots makes it at least "repairable" at a later time if I wanted it solid again.

Regarding the electric eye...yes I have one. However, I didn't survive the heat of one of the times the fire crept into the bin! I haven't installed it yet, but I bought a paddle wheel bin level "control" to replace that with. One of these models: https://blueleveltechnologies.com/products/point- ... indicator/

I hadn't thought specifically about the Axman feed system, but I think I understand exactly what you are thinking and it had given me an similar idea. I would be feeding coal to the fire just like Stoker Don in this video at like 2:20


I talked to Joe about this a week or so ago. My thought I was to just leave the hopper in place, but don't fill it, just figure out how to turn the hopper fill auger on and off to keep the pot full. Like maybe control the auger motor via the ash pan circuit. - though I'm guessing on the Axman models there's some other control (seems like it was mechanical??) that controls the rate of feed? The only other "drawback" I thought there might be to my idea was the fact that the hopper/auger doesn't have great seal, so there's a decent measure of air that can find it's way to the fire via the hopper...so setting up more like the Axman would definitely reduce that. Thinking out loud here --- remove the hopper, then fashion a pipe from the bottom of the auger to the inlet would resolve a lot of the air issue...then the only question is - how does one best "call" for more coal to the pot?

Are we on to something here? I'm about to start watching this video from stoker Don:


-- maybe there's an answer afoot!

Thanks again for the input!

You're not going to be able to adapt much of the Axeman type parts on your Prill. An Axeman operates more like a hand fed boiler than any stoker. The ash temperature sensing is how it knows when to feed coal. Coal is fed by slicing ash off the bottom of the fire allowing space at the top of the fire for coal to fall in. Not by pushing coal up from the bottom or side like other stokers.

I think the only thing you could use is the auger. It can feed up to Pea size Anthracite. It would be better to get it from somewhere that sells farm or manufacturing equipment. The auger itself is just a 5" steel tube with 1.5" flighting inside it.

-Don

Hi Don - thanks for chiming in. The mention of a Prill is my "replace the AHS 130" option. I haven't yet decided to abandon the coal gun....but I have found a Prill that's available not far away. It would be a pretty big project, as the hopper needs a complete redesign to fit my space...and obviously some plumbing changes (not a big deal, but still a consideration)

The "might be easier" option, was to try adapt the in place S130 to work like the Axman - either using the existing hopper fill auger (and leaving the hopper in place - or remove the hopper and plumb from the auger to the feed tube. as mentioned, putting a different auger in place, basically turning the S130 into an AA

I've been rolling through your videos - It seems that your auger runs constantly...but that can't be the case. What causes it to stop?

If I were to primarily only turn on the fill auger when ashing motor is running, a secondary "control" if needed could be a timer - so the auger could run less (but not more) than the duration of the ashing cycle - and perhaps that timer could be further adjusted by some other heat load factor - like outside air temp. Gearing can be changed for that auger speed as well, but not "on the fly" as it's a chain drive. I'd be basically trying to find a feed rate that keeps the fire in the pot, no fuel to "climb up".

Pat

PatInMontana wrote: ↑

Thu. Dec. 10, 2020 12:54 pm

I've been rolling through your videos - It seems that your auger runs constantly...but that can't be the case.

An AHS is a bit different than an Axeman, even though the boiler design is very similar. Don't use my 1959 Axeman 130M as an example of anything like a normal 130M, mine has significant modifications.

On a normal Axeman, yes, the auger turns whenever the fan motor runs. There is only one motor. The ashing solenoid enables the ashing lever that pushes the ashing gear when it is time to ash. This is determined by the ash temperature.

Again, the auger is a bit different that what other stokers use. It is a 5" tube with 1.5" flighting inside it. This leaves a 2" hole in the middle. If the transfer head is full, the coal falls back down the hole to the bin.

I have no idea how to burn Bit Coal, so I don't know how it would work in an Axeman. If that guy with the AHS is still burning Bit Coal in it, there is a chance that you might get it to work in an Axeman. Or maybe just get an AHS like his?

-Don

If the transfer head is full, the coal falls back down the hole to the bin

That was the key piece I wasn't "seeing." I knew it was kind of an "inverted" auger with flighting on the outside, but didn't know why! Genius!

Joe from that original video on this thread and I have the exact same setup / same AHS S130, just different source and quality of coal.

At some juncture things must have changed at AHS, as when I inquired about burning Bit in my Coal Gun S-130, they said it would void my warranty and potentially burn the house down and worse.... They reiterated anthracite only.

lsayre wrote: ↑

Thu. Dec. 10, 2020 2:38 pm

At some juncture things must have changed at AHS, as when I inquired about burning Bit in my Coal Gun S-130, they said it would void my warranty and potentially burn the house down and worse.... They reiterated anthracite only.

Different owners perhaps??

Didn't The original owners buy the company back after they changed
the design of the tombstone door and in the process that caused the
puff backs and explosions that blew the stove pipes apart???

lzaharis wrote: ↑

Fri. Dec. 11, 2020 1:00 am

Didn't The original owners buy the company back after they changed
the design of the tombstone door and in the process that caused the
puff backs and explosions that blew the stove pipes apart???

The short lived new owners caused the turmoil by speeding up ashing by a major degree, and that speed-up led to the massive puff-backs which were due to feeding too much new coal over too short of a time interval. The original owner (who was in the process of selling the company when I bought mine, which has slow ashing) bought the company back and slowed the ashing down a bunch and the problem immediately went away. It had nothing to do with the tombstone cover, which to my knowledge is still the same as always. My early discussions were with the original AHS owner (and to my knowledge, current owner).

lsayre wrote: ↑

Thu. Dec. 10, 2020 2:38 pm

At some juncture things must have changed at AHS, as when I inquired about burning Bit in my Coal Gun S-130, they said it would void my warranty and potentially burn the house down and worse.... They reiterated anthracite only.

Bituminous coal can vary WIDELY in how it burns. I am sure there is some bit. out there that would eagerly burn into the hopper on an AHS. Think about this - even equipment made to burn bit. coal can only burn some of it. The volatile content, AFT, coke index, etc all make a big difference.