Excessive Smoke From Auger Tube

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wyowa
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Stove/Furnace Make: Hardin
Stove/Furnace Model: Automatic Coal Furnace/ stoker
Location: Douglas Wy

Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 11:26 am

I have a hardin Automatic coal furnace. Fired it up last night and it ran fine fore a couple of hours ,then started to get smoke from auger tube. Having bought this unit used and I cant find any other name plate on it. Only name on fire door. I installed unit in garage de to trying to get it running quickest. Draft fan has a home made shutter on it, was set about half open. I had good burn with nice overall flame . Auger tube is laying flat. Should this have slight angle to it . there is some movement I can make in mounts. Any ideas welcome .


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mr1precision
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Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 2:03 pm

Have you checked your draft with a manometer? If you havent thats the best place to start.
To me and I'm no expert, it sounds like your draft could be less than what you need. Also you might want to check to make sure everything that should be sealed is sealed. On my AA-130 around the base is not particularly tight and thats the way it's supposed to be. If I lost my draft it would be coming out any place thats not tight. I hope this helps.

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LsFarm
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Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 2:35 pm

A photo will help us help you.. Your brand of stoker is not one I've heard of before, it may be a renamed version of a more common brand like EFM, GentlemanJanitor, Van Wert etc.

Usually if you have fumes exiting the auger tube, you have too much air or too tight/compacted coal bed. Also, many auger coal bins need to have a foot or two of coal over the auger to prevent fumes from escaping.. or a sealed coal bin.

I agree with the above post, check your draft first. Is the flue pipe clean, no accumulation of flyash in the elbows or in horizontal stretches?? Do you have a barometric damper installed, and is it working properly [moving with wind, open some when the stoker is running?] ? How tall is your chimney above the flue thimble [entrance into chimney] ??

Greg L

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wyowa
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Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 4:04 pm

currently using 55 gallon barrel for bin,as was previous owner. there is no adjustment to coal feed rate. There is no other name plate on stove other than name on the door.Chimeny is all new from stove up no damper installed.
stove1.jpg
auger motor and drive
stove5.jpg
best veiw of draft blower with home made damper open
stove4.jpg
another view of draft side

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WNY
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Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 4:34 pm

YOu Definitely need to check your draft, and make sure you are not building up fumes in your stove and it's leaking out.

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wyowa
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Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 4:46 pm

HI, I can open front door and not get any smoke out. If I hold cigarette up in front I can see smoke drawn in to stove.In the picture you can see the draft blower and the draft box,the auger tube runs thru thid box and the draft feeds around the tube into combustion chamber. I will atempt to clean out this box after stove cools down as may be blockage in there although flame does change with adjustment

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steinkebunch
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Stove/Furnace Make: Homemade Bituminous Hand-Fed
Stove/Furnace Model: Prill underfed stoker Model M8
Location: Wyoming

Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 6:40 pm

Hardin stoves were made in Hardin, MT awhile back. They are no longer in production, but I've heard they are a decent unit. There are a few out here in WY/MT. It would be great to see a few pics of your burner/retort etc.

I have had problems with my Prill stove smoking from the coal bin/auger before. I think it was caused by having too much combustion air. Once I closed the flapper some on the combustion air intake, it seemed to stop. It was a sign that I was sending too much heat up the chimney too.

If your combustion air is too strong, your probably sending alot more flyash up the chimney too. Once I turned my air down, I noticed dramatically less ash accumulating in my horizontal section of smokepipe, and my exterior cleanout tee stays much cleaner too. My ash volume dropped to about 1/3. My ash is not melting and clinkering some, but still gets broken up by the rotating ash ring and drops in the pan. Life is much better now.

I'm sure there is a way to adjust to coal feed rate, if you need to. You just need to get a smaller motor pulley (less feed rate) or larger motor pulley (higher feed rate). It may even be an adjustable pulley already. Or you can do the opposite on the gearbox.

My experience is that you have to do alot of playing with the coal feed rate, especially if you get coal from a different mine that the previous owner burnt. I don't think that's your problem with the auger smoking, just something else to think about.

Not sure what coal your using, bituminous or anthracite, but the previous Prill owner burnt sub-bituminous coal, and I'm burning bituminous, and I had to do alot of fiddling with air and feedrates to get things working right.

Good luck - post with your successes too.

Steinke

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wyowa
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Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 7:20 pm

here are two pics of burn rings, and draft chamber with blower removed . checked to see if chamber was clear(was) and cleaned the slots in ring had some stuck crud in them. bottom ring bolts to auger tube and has slots in it mabeye rasor blade wide. top ring moves with auger to carry ash to the sides
pics not real good but you can see slots and bottom of ring gear
Attachments
ring1.jpg
blower removed.jpg


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LsFarm
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Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 7:36 pm

Wyowa, are you in Wyoming? Burning either Bituminous or Sub-bituminous coal?? Your stoker looks like a Bit. coal burner..

I'll move this thread to the 'Burning Bituminous coal' forum.. for better exposure to Bit-burners here.

Greg L

BTW: since you have a 55 gallon drum for a coal hopper, can you put a lid on it to keep the fumes trapped?? Does your combustion blower have a flapper or similar adjustment to regulate the air quantity to the fire?
Maybe just cleaning out the slots in the burn pot will do the job, that could have been the cause of the smoke from the auger tube.

Let us know how it works out.

Greg L

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wyowa
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Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 7:46 pm

unfortunetly its not a sealable barrel.Im using leftover coal from the guy I got it from . I took it apart and cleaned the slots seams to be working ok for the moment. in pic for clarity you can see damper flap opened all the way.

No I was wrong it started smoking again.
Attachments
stove5.jpg

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steinkebunch
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Stove/Furnace Make: Homemade Bituminous Hand-Fed
Stove/Furnace Model: Prill underfed stoker Model M8
Location: Wyoming

Post Sun. Dec. 20, 2009 11:05 pm

It may be helpful if you could snap a photo of the fire while it's stoking. We could tell alot about feed rate and air settings that way. You might try closing the combustion air flapper some and see if that cuts the smoke down. But it's hard to say without a photo.

Are you in WY or MT? Burning bit coal?

Your equipment (grate and ash ring) looks identical to Prill parts. I think they're all made from the same "molds" or at the same foundry.

Steinke

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wyowa
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Stove/Furnace Make: Hardin
Stove/Furnace Model: Automatic Coal Furnace/ stoker
Location: Douglas Wy

Post Mon. Dec. 21, 2009 6:44 am

sorry about delay ,had to go to work .Im in wyoming and don't where the coal I have came from,around colony wy .Thats were I bought the stove . I will get the stove fired up in the morning and get some pics of flame. The coaI I have is mostly lumps smaller than golf ball size. I want to try some from local mine as have used it in older wood stove and burns to fine ash. The ash that was left from other owner in ash pan was also very fine,Im getting a large amount of clinkers and it fills ash pan in about a hour or so. Some one mentioned that Maertons in Center ND has an identical stove. Do you have a parts list or diahgram you could post so I could see if I have all the parts. There is only 2 in burn chamber ,the stationary ring with slots and ring that moves to stir. This is the set up inside stove
Attachments
Untitled.jpg

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steinkebunch
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Location: Wyoming

Post Mon. Dec. 21, 2009 9:50 am

It would appear from you diagram and description that you have all the parts you need.

It seems that you either have a restriction in the chimney that is causing the auger tube to be a pathway of least resistance, or you are throwing too much air at it, and it is forced to find any hole available to get the air out. My auger has no slope to it, and is quite short, and I have no problems with smoke coming out of it. If I have a coal bin that's almost completely empty, and I open the hopper lid for several minutes, sometimes I see a little smoke begin to creep out.

You should probably see what you can do to get a new barrel/bin that you can seal. Most stoves have a lid gasket and require that it be closed and sealed unless loading coal.

From Colony, WY, you are most likely burning Powder River Basin sub-bituminous, or maybe even some lignite from the ND area.

If you get a chance to go look at the stove in Center, ND it would be good for you. Ask lots of questions - you can learn alot from someone elses mistakes and successes. Keep at it - you'll get it figured out.

Looking forward to seeing pics of the fire - it may tell us more of the story. Pics of coal bin good too.

Steinke

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wyowa
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Stove/Furnace Make: Hardin
Stove/Furnace Model: Automatic Coal Furnace/ stoker
Location: Douglas Wy

Post Mon. Dec. 21, 2009 3:07 pm

Here are some pics of burn pot and flame I have the draft at about half open
So far sealing barrel is working been running near 5 hours now. will install thermostat tonight
Also have to connect into house duct work soon .Need real metal worker for that tho
Attachments
IMG00020.jpg
burn over hour and ahalf in
IMG00019.jpg
sealed barrel with tape and plastic, notice plastic is bubbled up over barrel
IMG00018.jpg
about Hour burn time
IMG00016.jpg
about 20 mins burn time
IMG00015.jpg
added temporary switches to control blower and augers
IMG00014.jpg
burn ring
IMG00010.jpg
trying charcoal
IMG00023.jpg
temporary thermostat,getting real warm in house

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steinkebunch
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Stove/Furnace Make: Homemade Bituminous Hand-Fed
Stove/Furnace Model: Prill underfed stoker Model M8
Location: Wyoming

Post Tue. Dec. 22, 2009 9:48 am

Not sure where to head on this problem now. It's hard to tell from your photos how the fire looks - you could back the air off some more and see if it helps. My combustion air flap is only open 5% or 10%.

Seems to me like you really need to seal your coal bin. That's how most all stoves are.

Steinke


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