Grate area smaller than top of firebox

WESOman · Post by **WESOman** » Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 9:47 am

I just got my WESO running again and noticed that the fire seems to die off first along the walls of the firebox. I assume this is because the firebox walls taper larger toward the top which seems to allow less air because the grate is now not directly under. Is there a slick work around to keep the air flowing better to those perimeter areas? I was under the impression that poking from the top can cause clinkers.

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Sat. Feb. 04, 2023 5:12 pm

Many round firepots taper.

Do you mean the fire dies as in unburned coal, or the burned coal is not moving down at the same rate as the coal away from the sides of the firepot ?

Burned coal tends to not drop as easily near the sides of the pot during shaking because of friction with the pot sides.

Sometimes you need to slide the right-angled tip of a poker down the side of the pot to loosen the ash. You can poke at burned coal and ash and not cause clinkers. It's live burning coals that you don't want to poke at if you can avoid it.

Paul

deepsixm · Post by **deepsixm** » Sat. Feb. 04, 2023 8:34 pm

I'm learning something here already.........i've been shaking and pokin' the hell out of my hot coal. Second day with a coal burner. Are you saying it will fuse together and not burn so well ????

waytomany?s · Post by **waytomany?s** » Sun. Feb. 05, 2023 11:01 am

deepsixm wrote: ↑
Sat. Feb. 04, 2023 8:34 pm
I'm learning something here already.........i've been shaking and pokin' the hell out of my hot coal. Second day with a coal burner. Are you saying it will fuse together and not burn so well ????

Did you read the post above yours? It's one of those it depends things.

deepsixm · Post by **deepsixm** » Sun. Feb. 05, 2023 12:16 pm

Yes I did. Over the past couple months (about the time weso and i became a couple) I've searched out all the WESO posts and related content. Since I posted last night....I have emptied the contents out...it was packed excessively, operator error all the way.....looked like concrete chunks..lots of ash, and as described by a weso owner...when you do not (I do not) have the sideplates in my firebox just the front grate...so the ash had piled and packed in........I'm asking for a redo ???

WESOman · Post by **WESOman** » Mon. Feb. 06, 2023 9:57 am

deepsixm wrote: ↑
Sun. Feb. 05, 2023 12:16 pm
...when you do not (I do not) have the sideplates in my firebox just the front grate...

I've been poking the edges down to get ash to drop but sometimes the accumulation of ash seems to cause the good coal on top to not burn or stop burning. In that case I try to slide those pieces of coal over before poking the ash below. I hope the learning curve begins to level off. Just when you think you are on to something, the weather changes and the burn changes with it. As for your "sideplates", I don't know what model stove you have, but I believe you can successfully cast parts with a castable refractory cement. I made a set of plates for the rear wall on my 125C and they seem to be holding up. I just cast a spare set yesterday, in case I need them in the future. If your stove has the 2" (??) wide shelves on each side where the side plates sit, and you don't have those wedged blocks in place, you probably have a much greater issue than me, in terms of air flow and ash drop. I found that in casting the parts you don't have to match the originals with all the cast details. Just use the simplest shape you can that still fits and functions. I made simple wooden molds that can be taken apart to get the parts out after drying. What model WESO do you have?

WESOman · Post by **WESOman** » Fri. Sep. 22, 2023 7:35 pm

Sunny Boy wrote: ↑
Sat. Feb. 04, 2023 5:12 pm
Many round firepots taper.

"Do you mean the fire dies as in unburned coal, or the burned coal is not moving down at the same rate as the coal away from the sides of the firepot ?"

Perhaps a bit of both. It seem like the air is not feeding combustion the same along the edges. I've wondered if steeper sides would be beneficial, even though the firebox would be smaller. Or perhaps some air holes in the two side panels. If the photo comes through, you will see how the edge extends beyond the grate on both sides. It would seem that the air flow would be less in those areas as the air flow would seem to go straight up easier than deflecting to the sides, hence less draft on those coals. Does anyone have an opinion. PS I assume the price of coal will be high again this year, making burning coal less economically feasible again.

[img][/imhttps://coalpail.com/coal-forum/download/file.php?mode=view&id=122301g]

WESOman · Post by **WESOman** » Mon. Sep. 25, 2023 8:44 am

As you can see from the previous photo, the design of the firebox in my WESO stove has about a 6" - 6.5" wider area at the top of the coal bed than the actual grate size. I personally think that is a poor design that was probably driven by trying to be a multi-fuel stove. Otherwise, I really like the stove. I am toying with the idea of casting some less angled blocks from castable refractory cement to try in place of the original removable blocks. It struck me that perhaps I should first try loading the stove with stove-size coal on the sides and nut size in the space above the grate. The stove size should allow increased upward airflow where it is needed. Do you think that may help or just be a futile attempt to solve the issue? When I bought the WESO many years ago there was no access to sources of info and user feedback like there is today (ie this forum and others). I post these questions in search of advice and also so others facing the same issues may find answers in the future.

waytomany?s · Post by **waytomany?s** » Mon. Sep. 25, 2023 12:20 pm

Is that the original/correct grate? It looks more like a wood grate. Unless it is the kind you "riddle",then I can understand why people don't like them. TBH I think your issue is not clearing ashes soon enough. Because it's small, depending on the temp you're burning, that may need to be done at 4-6 hour intervals.

warminmn · Post by **warminmn** » Mon. Sep. 25, 2023 2:02 pm

You wouldnt have to get rid of all of that angle but if you could make it with less slope it would help coal fall down a little better.

A little unburned coal on the sides will be preheated and fall onto the fire when you knock the ash down which is maybe the only benefit. It looks like it would be a lot of work to change it.

If its keeping you warm, isnt going out much, and isnt a real pain to use I'd just live with it. Otherwise I'd be looking for a better stove unless your sure about changing the firebrick as that looks difficult to me. Just my 2 cents.

WESOman · Post by **WESOman** » Tue. Sep. 26, 2023 9:50 pm

The side panels of the firebox are cast-iron. It would be a very simple design mold to cast a different shape from castable refractory or I could just cast some pieces to hang on the face of the original castings to see if an angle change helps or not. The grate is the original and is the kind that rotates around a central post as you push and pull the linkage. It is not rockers. I use a cheap, long bladed kitchen knife across the top of the grate to make things break up better than just shaking. I think I'm going to cast the additions to the face of the original casting and see if it helps or not. That will be under $20 and take maybe an hour or so of my time. Thanks for the feedback.

WESOman · Post by **WESOman** » Thu. Sep. 28, 2023 8:04 am

warminmn wrote: ↑
Mon. Sep. 25, 2023 2:02 pm
You wouldnt have to get rid of all of that angle but if you could make it with less slope it would help coal fall down a little better.

I was looking online for info on the attributes of a perfect coal stove design. As of this moment I have not found one but saw this on a post to this forum by Titleist1 on 2/8/2014 " It will have vertical or near vertical sides." I was hoping to find data on the relevance of the area of the firebox in relationship to the area of the grate. I watched a video on YouTube from the UK about a guy starting a coal fire. He was burning briquets, which I assume is what they call smokeless coal. His stove had an almost square bed/floor with a much smaller round grate in the middle. It seems having inches of flat surface around the grate and even more in the corners would be a poor design for proper airflow up through the coals and for getting the ash to reach the grate. Perhaps their smokeless coal functions differently than anthracite chunks. I suspect the design was compromised to allow for a larger firebox to burn wood. I suppose any multi-fuel stove should have a large enough firebox to allow for inserts that would make it suitable for burning coal and still have a large enough holding capacity when doing so.

warminmn · Post by **warminmn** » Thu. Sep. 28, 2023 8:57 am

Unsure if this will help give you ideas or not but I leaned a piece of steel with firebrick on top of that and it has worked well. Different stoves and designs, but maybe it will help you think of something. I generally just use things I have and dont run to a store unless I have too. Post by warminmn - Blocking a Grate To Burn On One Grate

WESOman · Post by **WESOman** » Fri. Sep. 29, 2023 7:29 am

warminmn wrote: ↑
Thu. Sep. 28, 2023 8:57 am
Unsure if this will help give you ideas or not but I leaned a piece of steel with firebrick on top of that and it has worked well. Different stoves and designs, but maybe it will help you think of something. I generally just use things I have and dont run to a store unless I have too. Post by warminmn - Blocking a Grate To Burn On One Grate

Thanks. It appears you have created the same effect I am trying to achieve. Having gravity on your side and a somewhat vertical wall, which is conducive to making the coal and ash slide toward the grate, would be very beneficial. Yes, it will make the holding capacity of the firebox a bit less but I am retired and wake up at least once a night anyhow. I read that airflow up a chimney is better in a round tube than a square or rectangle, as the air spirals up and leaves dead air spaces in the corners. I'll assume that is correct and that makes me think the ideal coal stove would be round stove with vertical walls that go up from the edges of the grate. A square or rectangular grate with vertical walls would be second best. I can't help thinking that the vertical walls and a good grate design are the important parts. It seems that no matter which stove you install, eventually replacement parts are no longer available and if you can't fabricate a part you are out of luck. There is a lot of heat in that coal bed and only certain materials will stand up to it without warping or burning away. That's why I chose to go the castable refractory route, as I can cast another if it goes bad. Replacing grate components would be a different issue. I suppose they are protected by a layer of ash most of the time.

warminmn · Post by **warminmn** » Fri. Sep. 29, 2023 8:18 am

Sounds like your going in the right direction, making it work better.

Grate area smaller than top of firebox

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