Surdiac 713 Stove Burning Issues

cpshoe60
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac 713
Location: Newmanstown, PA

Post By: cpshoe60 » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 9:36 am

I am new to this site so forgive me if I don't communicate as well as I should. I have a Surdiac 713 I bought used. I have it connected to a 6" flue. All of the gaskets excluding the glass have been replaced by me. My issue is that I can't seem to get more than 8-10 hours of burn time out of it. Am I expecting too much to expect 12 hours? My draft is -.04 WC. I have a barometric damper installed but no manual damper. My draft is as low as I can get it. I believe that whoever owned this before me may have burned it too hot and it appears that the front grate is warped. I believe this because the riddle bar tends to be tight in the center. It seems to me that the stove is choking on ash. Whenever I get home from work and the stove is out it seems to be loaded with ash. Could this also be a thermostat issue? Any suggestions will be entertained. If I need to provide more information please let me know.


franco b
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Post By: franco b » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 9:42 am

The fire pot is shallow and at high heat output 8 hours between tending is about right. It needs more coal capacity in the fire pot for longer burn times.

Lower the output for longer times.

Adjust the hopper to its highest position.

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michaelanthony
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Post By: michaelanthony » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 9:50 am

Welcome Cpshoe60, I don't have your type stove but will try to help. What size coal are you burning? If you are burning 'nut size you could try pea size if your grates will hold it without it falling through. Your draft sounds good but a mpd installed between the baro and stove may help, if not you can leave it open. Where are you located? This time of year is the coldest for me in Maine but my 2 stoves hold close to 50 lbs. of coal. How much coal can your stove hold? What temps. are you running at on the stove?
Others will get here and hopefully someone with your stove, again welcome. :)

...you may need to do a better de-ashing.

cpshoe60
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Post By: cpshoe60 » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 10:18 am

The hopper is set at the highest position. I am burning pea coal. I have a thermometer on my pipe and it runs around 150-200. I believe the hopper will hold 40-50#. I am in South Central PA near Reading. My parents had the same stove some years ago and it worked well for them. That's why I aquired this one. I want a stove that doesn't rely on electricity as I have a heat pump and need something that will work should the power go out.
I am assuming that by lowering the output you are referring to adjusting the thermostat lower?
I have been playing with that but the numbers are worn off the dial. I have replaced them with my own reference marks.
A question about the thermostat... how freely should the adjustments move? Mine seems to be "sticky" for lack of another description. I can only guess what the previous owner may have done by way of making adjustments to, if any to it.

franco b
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Post By: franco b » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 11:02 am

I believe the thermostat dial and cable can be moved and mounted where the cable is not so stressed or bent for easier operation.

The stove holds a decent amount but a good part of it is not burning because it is in a hopper. If all 50 pounds were burning in a larger fire pot then obviously it could burn a lot slower and put out the same heat as 25 pounds burned much faster and hotter. The concept of a shallow fire bed and hotter fire has some advantages such as much less chance of puff back and greater likelihood of burning carbon monoxide as well as initial gasses. Overall efficiency will tend to be higher than other designs especially with the good size heat exchanger that the Surdiac has. Long burn time is sacrificed.

You might like reading "Diary of a Surdiac" by member joeq. Put it in the search box to read. His stove is the smaller 513.

cpshoe60
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Post By: cpshoe60 » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 1:58 pm

I started reading "Diary of a Surdiac". I am on page 12 or 13 at this point. Sounds like some of the issues that I am experiencing with ash. It may be in my riddling technique or possibly I have it turned up too far. I am burning pea coal from the Jeddo Breaker in Hazelton, PA (that's what my supplier says). Wondering if anyone has had any issues with a warped front basket basket grate? I will look into the openings of my 2 bottom flat grates and see if they may need attention. Also, I am planning on trying to move the dial lower to take the bend out of the cable and see if that will allow me to make more accurate adjustments to the stove. I am also going to look into the "calibration" of the intake flap with the thermostat in the rear.

rberq
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Post By: rberq » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 2:24 pm

Two things help with my stove for longer burns at higher output:
1) After shaking down the ashes, use a rod with a bend on the end to poke up through the grate holes from underneath and clear as many ashes as you can. You have probably already seen that advice elsewhere ....
2) The coal pieces often burn partially but retain enough volume so they don't fall and compact themselves together. I think it's called "bridging". In other words, after 12 hours of burning, the firebox is full but low-density (lots of air spaces) instead of high-density (coal pieces closer together). Seems to happen more at high burn rates than at low rates. After shaking down the ashes, I poke into the fire from the top and stir the coals around so they compact and a lot more coal drops down from the hopper. You have to be judicious with this technique -- on my old (smaller) Harman stove, I could kill the fire with too much stirring. On my larger current stove that has not been a problem. Try it first on just one side of the firebox, or just the very front, or whatever, to see the effect.

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joeq
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Post By: joeq » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 6:46 pm

cpshoe60 wrote: A question about the thermostat... how freely should the adjustments move? Mine seems to be "sticky" for lack of another description. I can only guess what the previous owner may have done by way of making adjustments to, if any to it.
Check out page 16 of my thread, concerning your cable. Pretty poor location for those guys to build it that way. We've got a lot to talk about. 8-10 hrs on my 513 is about max. for burning W/O tending. that's on a med setting for cold weather. When idling in the warmer months, it'll go almost 20 hrs, but not making much heat. not sure how much bigger your 713 is, but would like to see pics of your set-up. Welcome aboard.


cpshoe60
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Post By: cpshoe60 » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 7:21 pm

Joeq,
I have been perusing your thread. A lot of good information I think. Tonight I moved my thermostat dial down to a horizontal position in relation to the thermostat. Had to shorten the cable about 3 inches. But it seems to work more smoothly. I also made an adjustment to the "valve" attached to the thermostat so that it won't go totally shut when the dial is turned to what I suspect would be 0 on it if there were still numbers on it. All that being said, I am attempting to burn it tonight at a setting lower than I have been previously. I want to thank everyone who has responded. All the information has been taken under advisement. I will work on getting some pictures downloaded.

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joeq
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Post By: joeq » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 8:25 pm

Well CP, if the knob is like mine, it's about 2" in diameter. Each number is spaced about a 1/2" from each other. I don't think you need to be adjusting anything on your damper, cause all the numbers are nothing more than a reference. If your stove was "dead" cold, than maybe you could set it to "0", and make sure the damper is closed. (At least this is how I "think" it would be set).But like I said, it's just a number. You'll never need to set it to "0", cause it will just kill it.
Actually, if you were to have a tape on yours with numbers, "0" should be a closed damper, and the #1 digit, is about 2" away from the "0". Then the rest of the numbers are evenly spaced by 1/2" increments, when measuring on the outer diameter. When I operate my stove, it's usually between 1/2 and 2. When set at 2, the stoves runs hot, 450* on the heat exchanger. When I go to bed, I drop it to about 1 or less. But you can see my history on my diary. Check out the last 3 or 4 pages, may help you some. But in closing I'll say, set your draft at -04, (like I think you already mentioned), and no more. And don't crank that thermostat too high. You'll just burn that coal to ashes in mere minutes. Good luck

steffy
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Post By: steffy » Mon. Dec. 25, 2017 11:00 am

Surdiac 720 I riddle every 8 hours thru the 3 slots and then open glass door and poke the coal down with the riddling tool. Most of the time I poke it briskly down almost to the point of packing it down . The other day i riddled as normal but did not poke briskly with the glass door opened . I noticed that the stove was running hotter than it normally does . Does anyone have any input on the riddling method that I have described ?

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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Mon. Dec. 25, 2017 11:39 am

S, what the hell is riddling???????? LOL

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warminmn
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Post By: warminmn » Mon. Dec. 25, 2017 12:22 pm

Its the same as slicing Fred. Its running a tool of some form on top of the grate to get ash to fall. It works pretty good but it cant compete with a good shaker.

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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Mon. Dec. 25, 2017 12:44 pm

Thanx W. Gottcha. Lord I'm glad I picked this HITZER up.

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joeq
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Post By: joeq » Mon. Dec. 25, 2017 4:15 pm

Hi Steff, I had a 513 for a few years, and the most successful method I had was to riddle as you mentioned, making sure to get "all the way" to the back, and in the corners. The drivers side was a bit difficult, because the pull rod for the grate was in the way, and I believe I ended up removing it later on, because I never used it for dumping, while the fire was lit. Once the riddling was complete, I would also "floss" through the grates from underneath. Never did I open the load door, and poke at the fire bed. Are you using the hopper? I had a fairly extensive thread running on the stove, with lots of advice from the masters. You might want to check it out. Its titled, "Diary of a Surdiac".


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