Greetings.
I am new to this sight and I'm writing because I have never burned coal before, only wood. I recently bought a used Franco Belge coal stove but I don't know the model number. However, it is only 15 inches deep and about 30 inches wide. It has a 5 inch rear exhaust pipe. If anyone can tell me what model this is, then I could talk more intelligently about my stove. I've seen pictures of the same stove but red in color- mine is black. Bottom line, I need some direction as to the best way to operate this stove. Here is why:
I'm in PA and this evening it is around 45 degrees outside. I tried lighting my stove with the customary initial wood fire this evening for the first time, but it was really smokey. I have a 20 foot stainless steel chimney liner installed with a T going into the back of the stove along with a damper right at the stovepipe exhaust opening. I had the thermostat set on 8 (completely open) and the ash door open. Why was I getting so much smoke? It eventually got better, but I was pretty nervous at first. At one point, I opened the door to put more wood on, but the smoke started coming out the top of the stove, so I quickly shut the door. I've burned a vermont castings vigilant wood stove in the past, and I never had any problems with smoke in the initial startup. This stove acted completely different. The burning area in this stove is very small, and I"m not sure exactly how the exhaust works because it doesn't go "up and out" like my wood stove did, but I'm concerned that I'm doing something wrong. After tonight, I'm really nervous about attempting a coal fire, let alone the initial wood fire to get it going. I read that it should be at no more than 55 degrees outside to get a sufficient updraft, so I'm not sure what the problem was. If anyone can offer me some advice, I''d be grateful, particularly anyone who has the same stove as me. I just don't want to burn my house down!
Updraft Problem and Other Questions About Franco Belge Stove
Greetings musikfan and welcome to the world of coal burning!!!
First I have an Efel which is similar to your stove. Wide and narrow firebox which makes it difficult to get it going but once it is going it will put out an incredible amount of heat. Following wood stove light off procedures won't work with our brand of stove. You will get a ton of smoke if you try to use just wood pieces no matter how small you start with. The Efel and the FB stoves are different from wood stoves and almost all other coal stoves. It's hard to get going but it snacks on the coal rather than gobbling it. Thank the Europeans for their conservation mindedness. The light off procedure for our stove takes at least 30 minutes so patience is needed.
This is due to the gas passages from the firebox to the smoke pipe circles around the back and goes horizontal across both sides of the back of the stove. You have to get something pretty hot going to get the chimney to start drafting. The key I have found is newspaper, fire gell, and lump charcoal. I tried all kinds of things and procedures that works on other stoves but due to the design of our type of stove it WILL smoke you out of the house!!!
1. Open your draft all the way utilizing the draft control knob and the MPD. Open the upper loading door and the lower ash door. Open them , do nothing, go away for about 10 minutes. If you need to slice the grate now is the time to do it CAREFULLY. Close the upper door and slice from below. Let it sit so the dust will settle. Don't remove all the ash from the grate at this time.
2. Crumple SINGLE sheets of newspaper into one row of loose paper balls and press them lightly onto the grate on top of the layer of ash. Then I use a single line of jell fire starter across the top of the paper. Don't need to saturate it, just a single line. What your trying to do is get a very quick, very fast, hot fire with the newspaper so it will start a draft.
3. Take the lump charcoal and spread a layer about an inch deep across the top of the paper balls all the way across. Not big pieces. The big pieces will take too long to light off and your fire will go out before the charcoal lights. Remember it's the burning paper that will establish your draft and the lump charcoal will burn hot enough to keep it going. You need it to light pretty quickly. I haven't tried Match Light charcoal yet but the principle is the same. The newspaper burns fast and hot which lights the charcoal which when it is burning good will light the coal. I have not been able to get this stove going yet using newspaper and wood. The wood that is small enough to light fairly quckly still takes too long to light and smokes then burns out with no burning bed of hot coals left behind. I smoked us out several times with this stove before I found this sequence which has worked every time so far.
You may have to crush the charcoal to get small pieces about the size of pea coal. Put two lines of jell on the lump charcoal from side to side. This is also a good time to fill the hopper with pea coal so it closes off the gravity feed area from the hopper. It will also help to block the area so smoke and gasses will go through the gas passages and not try to exit the stove from the top loading plate on the very top of the stove.
4. Light the paper on both ends of the stove at the same time so the fire will burn from the ends towards the middle. Once the paper is BURNING WELL, CLOSE THE TOP FRONT LOADING DOOR. Leave the ash door open, the MPD open, and the temp control knob on max. DO NOT LEAVE THE STOVE OR GET INVOLVED WITH ANYTHING ELSE WITH THE ASH DOOR OPEN!! A good reminder is to set a simple kitchen wind up timer for 10 minutes just in case you do forget or get involved with something else.
5. When the lump charcoal stops throwing off sparks and is burning with a yellowish blue flame, put another layer of charcoal pieces on top and let that catch good.
6. Take a couple stove shovel full loads and spread it across the rear of the burning charcoal. Do not cover all the fire. You want to leave fire so the gasses generated by the coal as it lights will be burned off. Let it sit. After a bit you should see the blue ladies dancing across the top to the new coal. That is the gasses burning off. When you see this close the ash door.
7. Continue to add small shovels of coal across the entire bed until your bed of burning coal is at least up to the bottom of the loading door. Too much coal at any one time and you'll put it out. A line at a time from end to end until the bed is well established. You cannot hurry up this stove or most any coal stove for that matter. Patience is required. Coal wants little changes at at time. You will be enjoy the reward of coal heat as you get past each step of the learning curve with your coal stove.
Remember that it's a coal stove; it is not a wood stove. Try to get a coal stove to work like a wood stove and you will be rewarded with large amounts of smoke, no heat, and a household full of grumpy people with windows open to vent the smoke.
Try this procedure and let us know how it works.
Happy coal burning. Larry
First I have an Efel which is similar to your stove. Wide and narrow firebox which makes it difficult to get it going but once it is going it will put out an incredible amount of heat. Following wood stove light off procedures won't work with our brand of stove. You will get a ton of smoke if you try to use just wood pieces no matter how small you start with. The Efel and the FB stoves are different from wood stoves and almost all other coal stoves. It's hard to get going but it snacks on the coal rather than gobbling it. Thank the Europeans for their conservation mindedness. The light off procedure for our stove takes at least 30 minutes so patience is needed.
This is due to the gas passages from the firebox to the smoke pipe circles around the back and goes horizontal across both sides of the back of the stove. You have to get something pretty hot going to get the chimney to start drafting. The key I have found is newspaper, fire gell, and lump charcoal. I tried all kinds of things and procedures that works on other stoves but due to the design of our type of stove it WILL smoke you out of the house!!!
1. Open your draft all the way utilizing the draft control knob and the MPD. Open the upper loading door and the lower ash door. Open them , do nothing, go away for about 10 minutes. If you need to slice the grate now is the time to do it CAREFULLY. Close the upper door and slice from below. Let it sit so the dust will settle. Don't remove all the ash from the grate at this time.
2. Crumple SINGLE sheets of newspaper into one row of loose paper balls and press them lightly onto the grate on top of the layer of ash. Then I use a single line of jell fire starter across the top of the paper. Don't need to saturate it, just a single line. What your trying to do is get a very quick, very fast, hot fire with the newspaper so it will start a draft.
3. Take the lump charcoal and spread a layer about an inch deep across the top of the paper balls all the way across. Not big pieces. The big pieces will take too long to light off and your fire will go out before the charcoal lights. Remember it's the burning paper that will establish your draft and the lump charcoal will burn hot enough to keep it going. You need it to light pretty quickly. I haven't tried Match Light charcoal yet but the principle is the same. The newspaper burns fast and hot which lights the charcoal which when it is burning good will light the coal. I have not been able to get this stove going yet using newspaper and wood. The wood that is small enough to light fairly quckly still takes too long to light and smokes then burns out with no burning bed of hot coals left behind. I smoked us out several times with this stove before I found this sequence which has worked every time so far.
You may have to crush the charcoal to get small pieces about the size of pea coal. Put two lines of jell on the lump charcoal from side to side. This is also a good time to fill the hopper with pea coal so it closes off the gravity feed area from the hopper. It will also help to block the area so smoke and gasses will go through the gas passages and not try to exit the stove from the top loading plate on the very top of the stove.
4. Light the paper on both ends of the stove at the same time so the fire will burn from the ends towards the middle. Once the paper is BURNING WELL, CLOSE THE TOP FRONT LOADING DOOR. Leave the ash door open, the MPD open, and the temp control knob on max. DO NOT LEAVE THE STOVE OR GET INVOLVED WITH ANYTHING ELSE WITH THE ASH DOOR OPEN!! A good reminder is to set a simple kitchen wind up timer for 10 minutes just in case you do forget or get involved with something else.
5. When the lump charcoal stops throwing off sparks and is burning with a yellowish blue flame, put another layer of charcoal pieces on top and let that catch good.
6. Take a couple stove shovel full loads and spread it across the rear of the burning charcoal. Do not cover all the fire. You want to leave fire so the gasses generated by the coal as it lights will be burned off. Let it sit. After a bit you should see the blue ladies dancing across the top to the new coal. That is the gasses burning off. When you see this close the ash door.
7. Continue to add small shovels of coal across the entire bed until your bed of burning coal is at least up to the bottom of the loading door. Too much coal at any one time and you'll put it out. A line at a time from end to end until the bed is well established. You cannot hurry up this stove or most any coal stove for that matter. Patience is required. Coal wants little changes at at time. You will be enjoy the reward of coal heat as you get past each step of the learning curve with your coal stove.
Remember that it's a coal stove; it is not a wood stove. Try to get a coal stove to work like a wood stove and you will be rewarded with large amounts of smoke, no heat, and a household full of grumpy people with windows open to vent the smoke.
Try this procedure and let us know how it works.
Happy coal burning. Larry
Larry,
Thank you VERY MUCH for your reply. I don't feel like I'm losing my mind now. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why I was getting so much smoke. Honestly, I was pretty scared at first and ran to the kitchen to get water and was all but ready to throw it on the fire.
I understand now what you are saying about the need to start it slow and not treat it like a wood stove. Yes, the exhaust vents are at the sides and wrap around the side of the stove and out the back. This is a totally new system to me, having formerly burned a Vermont Castings Vigilant wood stove with the top vent. I was standing there trying to figure out how in the world the smoke would go sideways instead of up (which is exactly what it did and started to fill my living room).
Would you mind if I asked you a couple more novice questions?
1.Can I use Matchlight charcoal? I have a few bags of it and I'm thinking this would work as well as conventional charcoal...'
2. How does all the coal that's in the hopper not start igniting when it's "connected" to the stuff that's all ready burning in the grate? When the coal drops down into the bed, how does it drop down and "push forward" so that the pieces are evenly distributed throughout the whole grate? From the way the hopper is designed, it appears as if the coal would only fall down in the back of the grate and just burn there. How does the coal get to the front of the grate and also evenly distribute itself over the whole burning surface of the grates??
3. At what outside temperature do you fire up your stove? I've read that you should wait until it's at least 55 degrees outside if not lower.
thanks again MUCHO for all your advice.
Craig
Thank you VERY MUCH for your reply. I don't feel like I'm losing my mind now. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why I was getting so much smoke. Honestly, I was pretty scared at first and ran to the kitchen to get water and was all but ready to throw it on the fire.
I understand now what you are saying about the need to start it slow and not treat it like a wood stove. Yes, the exhaust vents are at the sides and wrap around the side of the stove and out the back. This is a totally new system to me, having formerly burned a Vermont Castings Vigilant wood stove with the top vent. I was standing there trying to figure out how in the world the smoke would go sideways instead of up (which is exactly what it did and started to fill my living room).
Would you mind if I asked you a couple more novice questions?
1.Can I use Matchlight charcoal? I have a few bags of it and I'm thinking this would work as well as conventional charcoal...'
2. How does all the coal that's in the hopper not start igniting when it's "connected" to the stuff that's all ready burning in the grate? When the coal drops down into the bed, how does it drop down and "push forward" so that the pieces are evenly distributed throughout the whole grate? From the way the hopper is designed, it appears as if the coal would only fall down in the back of the grate and just burn there. How does the coal get to the front of the grate and also evenly distribute itself over the whole burning surface of the grates??
3. At what outside temperature do you fire up your stove? I've read that you should wait until it's at least 55 degrees outside if not lower.
thanks again MUCHO for all your advice.
Craig
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MURDOC1
- Member
- Posts: 559
- Joined: Fri. Aug. 14, 2009 10:00 am
- Location: Harleysville, Pa.
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark 3 Top Flue
Just my .02 cents worth here regarding the charcoal, I have used Match Light and other brands of charcoal for that matter and I have always found that it may not smoke you out of the place but it sure will smell you outta there in a hurry!!! I now use Cowboy Charcoal brand charcoal, it is more like natural wood that has been slow cooked to the point of black and it gives far less smoke and odor than regular charcoal briquettes...
The odor given off from regular briquettes sticks around for a while, sticks to clothes and any kind of fabric including your furniture!!!
Also, MPD stands for: Manual Pipe Damper, basically a "valve" that can be installed in your stove pipe to regulate exhaust flow up the chimney... They are a flat/round cast iron plate that fits inside your stove pipe and once in the pipe can be opened or closed via a small spring handled shaft that is on the outside of the pipe, again, just like a valve for your stove pipe... Others will explain further and much better than I can I'm sure...
The odor given off from regular briquettes sticks around for a while, sticks to clothes and any kind of fabric including your furniture!!!
Also, MPD stands for: Manual Pipe Damper, basically a "valve" that can be installed in your stove pipe to regulate exhaust flow up the chimney... They are a flat/round cast iron plate that fits inside your stove pipe and once in the pipe can be opened or closed via a small spring handled shaft that is on the outside of the pipe, again, just like a valve for your stove pipe... Others will explain further and much better than I can I'm sure...
No, I don't have one of those kinds of dampers on my stove (but I did on one of my previous wood stoves). Mine is a barometric damper which is the little round flap that swings on a hinge. It comes out of the back exhaust pipe on the stove and then connects to the T which is connected to my SS liner. I'm not sure that I am supposed to do anything to the barometric damper. I was told that the best setting for this was to make it snug, then turn it one and a quarter turns.
EasyRay, thanks for your suggestion about the seals. The guy I bought this from just recently put new gaskets and a new window in the stove. As far as the cleaning, it was not dirty at all, very well maintained. There does not appear to be any build up of anything in the vents going to the exhaust.
I saw a video online where the guy opened up several windows in the room before he lit the stove with charcoal. But I like the idea of the Cowboy brand. I guess I'll try the matchlight first and see what happens.
How cold does it get outside before most of you decide to fire up your stoves???
EasyRay, thanks for your suggestion about the seals. The guy I bought this from just recently put new gaskets and a new window in the stove. As far as the cleaning, it was not dirty at all, very well maintained. There does not appear to be any build up of anything in the vents going to the exhaust.
I saw a video online where the guy opened up several windows in the room before he lit the stove with charcoal. But I like the idea of the Cowboy brand. I guess I'll try the matchlight first and see what happens.
How cold does it get outside before most of you decide to fire up your stoves???
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EasyRay
- Member
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Thu. Nov. 16, 2006 8:44 pm
- Location: Central Connecticut
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC 2000
- Coal Size/Type: Pea,Nut or Stove
You have a Barometric damper so it might be a good idea to cover it with tin foil so you keep a good draft until you get the stove going. Then you can remove the tin foil.
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franco b
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 11417
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
- Location: Kent CT
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
- Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
To start go outside and pick up fallen branches. Break up to about 10 in lengths from the tiny sizes to about 1 in or a little more in thickness. Two sheets of newspaper balled up covered with smallest wood and then some larger pieces. Cover glass with aluminum foil and light fire. You can leave the ash door open at this point. If the stove is on a lower level open a door or window. You want a fire that lights easily and quickly to establish draft. You can burn a couple sheets of newspaper first if you want to heat things up a little. No manual dampers and barometric dampers, you don't need them. Set the thermostat at about 5. When the fire is going good add more of the larger sizes of wood. Add some coal gradually. When the coal is burning you can remove the foil from the door. close the ash pan door. Continue adding coal through the top opening eventually filling hopper to top. When the entire grate is burning coal moderate the fire by gradually closing down the thermostat to lower numbers. Remember it takes time to respond.
The hopper should be in the highest notches for pea coal.
The hopper should be in the highest notches for pea coal.
My son had a Franco for 10 yrs. The first thing you do is use a hair blow dryer at high speed up the chimney. This warms the chimney & reverses your draft.
Or you can put the hair dryer in the stove pointing towards draft holes for 10 minutes. Works everytime. Do this before anything else. Also, I'm a retired bricklayer, so believe me, I know chimneys. Good Luck! Den034071. CoalCrackerJack.
Or you can put the hair dryer in the stove pointing towards draft holes for 10 minutes. Works everytime. Do this before anything else. Also, I'm a retired bricklayer, so believe me, I know chimneys. Good Luck! Den034071. CoalCrackerJack.
1.Can I use Matchlight charcoal? I have a few bags of it and I'm thinking this would work as well as conventional charcoal...'
I haven't tried Matchlight but everything I read on here says that without an excellent draft you get a lighter fluid odor from the stove until it burns good.
2. How does all the coal that's in the hopper not start igniting when it's "connected" to the stuff that's all ready burning in the grate? When the coal drops down into the bed, how does it drop down and "push forward" so that the pieces are evenly distributed throughout the whole grate? From the way the hopper is designed, it appears as if the coal would only fall down in the back of the grate and just burn there. How does the coal get to the front of the grate and also evenly distribute itself over the whole burning surface of the grates??
Anthracite Coal will only burn when it has air going through it from the bottom up. That is why it doesn't all just flash into flames at one time when it drops down out of the hopper. It gets forward by the action of slicing the ashes and they drop away. The coal will start to drop towards the front as you slice the ash. Once your done slicing, you will need to open the top door and pull the coal to the front. I suggest you do this 1/2 the grate at a time. That way you will always have fresh coal on 1/2 the grate at any given time and you don't have to worry about smothering the fire.
3. At what outside temperature do you fire up your stove? I've read that you should wait until it's at least 55 degrees outside if not lower.
That is a good temp to start with. Your stove may appear to be small but when it cranks up it puts out a crazy amount of heat.
And before anyone says anything about my choice of font color, yes I am comfortable with my feminine side.
Larry
I haven't tried Matchlight but everything I read on here says that without an excellent draft you get a lighter fluid odor from the stove until it burns good.
2. How does all the coal that's in the hopper not start igniting when it's "connected" to the stuff that's all ready burning in the grate? When the coal drops down into the bed, how does it drop down and "push forward" so that the pieces are evenly distributed throughout the whole grate? From the way the hopper is designed, it appears as if the coal would only fall down in the back of the grate and just burn there. How does the coal get to the front of the grate and also evenly distribute itself over the whole burning surface of the grates??
Anthracite Coal will only burn when it has air going through it from the bottom up. That is why it doesn't all just flash into flames at one time when it drops down out of the hopper. It gets forward by the action of slicing the ashes and they drop away. The coal will start to drop towards the front as you slice the ash. Once your done slicing, you will need to open the top door and pull the coal to the front. I suggest you do this 1/2 the grate at a time. That way you will always have fresh coal on 1/2 the grate at any given time and you don't have to worry about smothering the fire.
3. At what outside temperature do you fire up your stove? I've read that you should wait until it's at least 55 degrees outside if not lower.
That is a good temp to start with. Your stove may appear to be small but when it cranks up it puts out a crazy amount of heat.
And before anyone says anything about my choice of font color, yes I am comfortable with my feminine side.
Larry
Pink for the cure!Thanks again, Larry, for answering the rest of my questions. Greatly appreciated!
As for your choice of font color, it really didn't cross my mind. I liked it because your reply stood out from the other text. I personally like using red or blue as well.
As for your choice of font color, it really didn't cross my mind. I liked it because your reply stood out from the other text. I personally like using red or blue as well.
