New to coal
-
- New Member
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sat. Jan. 30, 2021 9:50 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Hardy H4
- Coal Size/Type: Stoker
Hi, I have been heating my 4500 sq ft house with a hardy h4 boiler. I had 15 cords of wood for the winter, but I am already nearing the end of that, so I bought a ton of stoker coal to try, and for the last couple days I've been trying to figure out how to burn it. I can get it burning no problem, but whether I put 3 inches or 12 inches of coal, it is gone within 2-3 hours. Just for reference, 12" of coal in my boiler is over 200lbs of coal. I don't have shaker grates yet, as they are $800 for my boiler, but I have an L shaped poker I use to poke from underneath a couple times a day that seems to work pretty well. I belive I have lignite coal, because it came from north dakota. Any tips or suggestions? I would be very happy if I could get closer to 10 hours of burn time. I'm thinking lining the sides of the firebox with firebrick to reduce the firebox size may help?
- freetown fred
- Member
- Posts: 30300
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
What is there for under air draft?
-
- New Member
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sat. Jan. 30, 2021 9:50 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Hardy H4
- Coal Size/Type: Stoker
It is forced draft, blows from under the grates.
- warminmn
- Member
- Posts: 8189
- Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
- Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Riteway 37
- Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
- Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt
Note: I typed this before TJ's last post and Im not changing it, lol.
What Fred said... if its mostly over fire air its not going to work well with lignite long term. I know I need more under fire air with it than over fire air burning lump size in my stove... your results may vary.
I cant answer your boiler questions well but if its from North Dakota, yes its lignite coal. 15 cords is a LOT of wood (if good wood) in this somewhat mild winter unless your in the arctic circle. Location of where you are and a picture or two will help also of your setup for the boiler folks to answer you questions better. You may need the ND lump coal, or should I say likely will if your boiler is hand fed and not a stoker. ND lump coal is quite large in size. Lignite doesnt create the amount of ash that anthracite does weight wise but is fluffy, light, and still fills an ash pan quicker than wood. Poking under it may or may not work but you seem to need a lot of BTU for your heating needs. You may get sick of poking quickly. Good luck
What Fred said... if its mostly over fire air its not going to work well with lignite long term. I know I need more under fire air with it than over fire air burning lump size in my stove... your results may vary.
I cant answer your boiler questions well but if its from North Dakota, yes its lignite coal. 15 cords is a LOT of wood (if good wood) in this somewhat mild winter unless your in the arctic circle. Location of where you are and a picture or two will help also of your setup for the boiler folks to answer you questions better. You may need the ND lump coal, or should I say likely will if your boiler is hand fed and not a stoker. ND lump coal is quite large in size. Lignite doesnt create the amount of ash that anthracite does weight wise but is fluffy, light, and still fills an ash pan quicker than wood. Poking under it may or may not work but you seem to need a lot of BTU for your heating needs. You may get sick of poking quickly. Good luck
-
- Member
- Posts: 1137
- Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF360
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: T.O.M (Warm Morning converted to baseburner by Steve) Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Warm Morning 400, Warm Morning 524, Warm Morning 414,Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 7.1/DS Machine basement stove/ Harman SF1500
- Baseburners & Antiques: Renown Parlor stove 87B
- Coal Size/Type: Bituminous/anthracite
- Other Heating: Harman Accentra, enviro omega, Vermont Ironworks Elm stove, Quadrafire Mt Vernon, Logwood stove, Sotz barrel stove,
Over fire air is good for the volatile stage but once they are burned off the air needs to come from underneath.
What kind of temps are you seeing. If it’s burning up that fast a lot of heat must be going out the stack.
When I started burning bit in a warm morning stove I was going through a 50 gallon drum of coal a day. It was suggested I put a barometric damper and a manual damper on it. That decreased the coal use immensely.
Dunno if it’s possible to put on a hardy. I have no idea what that stove is like.
What kind of temps are you seeing. If it’s burning up that fast a lot of heat must be going out the stack.
When I started burning bit in a warm morning stove I was going through a 50 gallon drum of coal a day. It was suggested I put a barometric damper and a manual damper on it. That decreased the coal use immensely.
Dunno if it’s possible to put on a hardy. I have no idea what that stove is like.
Last edited by fig on Sun. Jan. 31, 2021 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
- freetown fred
- Member
- Posts: 30300
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Try that reducin the firebox T--nothin ventured, nothin gained.
-
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 11417
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
- Location: Kent CT
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
- Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
Lining the firebox is good, but whether wood or coal you are burning too much, about double. Find out where all that heat is going. Is the boiler wasting it, or the house, or the transmission lines?
-
- Member
- Posts: 5791
- Joined: Sun. Feb. 17, 2008 1:08 pm
- Location: Harrison, Tenn
- Other Heating: Wishing it was cold enough for coal here....not really
I like the baro idea. Either it is going up the chimney, or he needs that many btu's. No matter what, the baro will get a longer more controlled burn and perhaps lets more get into the water jacket.
Kevin
Kevin
-
- New Member
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sat. Jan. 30, 2021 9:50 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Hardy H4
- Coal Size/Type: Stoker
Thanks for all the replies. It is an outdoor boiler with forced draft, when it reaches 180 degrees the draft blower turns off and a flap blocks off airflow. My house is difficult to heat, 4500 sq ft farm house built in the 1950s. This summer I will be doing lots of air sealing and insulating. I'm planning on adding firebrick today to see if that makes a difference, but from burning a cord of wood a week, maybe I need to focus on insulation in the house and a more efficient boiler. The boiler is a very simple design, and after doing some research online, it is less than 50% efficient, probably closer to 35%.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1137
- Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF360
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: T.O.M (Warm Morning converted to baseburner by Steve) Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Warm Morning 400, Warm Morning 524, Warm Morning 414,Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 7.1/DS Machine basement stove/ Harman SF1500
- Baseburners & Antiques: Renown Parlor stove 87B
- Coal Size/Type: Bituminous/anthracite
- Other Heating: Harman Accentra, enviro omega, Vermont Ironworks Elm stove, Quadrafire Mt Vernon, Logwood stove, Sotz barrel stove,
The forced draft might be the culprit. The bituminous I burn would melt the grates if I used forced draft...lol. It may be much more volatile then yours though. Forced draft works with wood but the only time I’ve ever heard of anyone using it with coal is when reloading and only for about 10 minutes then. That guy was burning anthracite though. After that it’s all under fire air.
If you could do some modifications and make it similar to a Clayton or Hotblast type furnace and add a chimney with a baro you might have better results.
** I just took a peak at the manual and saw this about the chimney.
5. LOCATION: It is recommended that the unit be located with due consideration to the prevailing wind direction.
• •
Furnace should be located no less than 100 feet from any residence not served by the furnace.
If located within 100 feet to 300 feet to any residence not served by the furnace, it is recommended that the stack be at least 2 feet higher than the peak of that residence.
So if you have no chimney it may be that you have no draft. The stove would now be relying on forced draft only which would most likely be way more draft then a constant natural draft. Calls for heat constantly, kicks on draft blower constantly, burning way more fuel then necessary. Just a thought.
If you could do some modifications and make it similar to a Clayton or Hotblast type furnace and add a chimney with a baro you might have better results.
** I just took a peak at the manual and saw this about the chimney.
5. LOCATION: It is recommended that the unit be located with due consideration to the prevailing wind direction.
• •
Furnace should be located no less than 100 feet from any residence not served by the furnace.
If located within 100 feet to 300 feet to any residence not served by the furnace, it is recommended that the stack be at least 2 feet higher than the peak of that residence.
So if you have no chimney it may be that you have no draft. The stove would now be relying on forced draft only which would most likely be way more draft then a constant natural draft. Calls for heat constantly, kicks on draft blower constantly, burning way more fuel then necessary. Just a thought.
Last edited by fig on Sun. Jan. 31, 2021 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Rob R.
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 18004
- Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
- Location: Chazy, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr
Welcome. You have a big job ahead of you. 4500 sq ft is a lot of house to tighten up. I suggest starting with a blower door test to identify the biggest air leaks and go from there. On a house such as yours there are usually a lot of air leaks into the attic, and the rim joist/sill, and around loose windows and doors. Fiberglass insulation is just an air filter, so don't rely on that to stop drafts.tjmortenson wrote: ↑Sun. Jan. 31, 2021 9:42 amThanks for all the replies. It is an outdoor boiler with forced draft, when it reaches 180 degrees the draft blower turns off and a flap blocks off airflow. My house is difficult to heat, 4500 sq ft farm house built in the 1950s. This summer I will be doing lots of air sealing and insulating. I'm planning on adding firebrick today to see if that makes a difference, but from burning a cord of wood a week, maybe I need to focus on insulation in the house and a more efficient boiler. The boiler is a very simple design, and after doing some research online, it is less than 50% efficient, probably closer to 35%.