Warm Morning 523

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fig
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
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Post By: fig » Mon. Feb. 11, 2019 1:07 pm

That was the easy coal... Anthracite.

Now for the fussy stuff. I picked up a ton of bit today. It's stove coal, smaller then I would like , but all they had. I'm going to play around with it this evening when I get home and see how it does. It looks really good. They said it burns very hot and doesn't swell much. I'll just make a small fire at first to see how it is.
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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 11, 2019 1:52 pm

The Warm Morning design is old and does not incorporate the

modern design of earlier burning techniques . It does not have

much of a heat exchanger so much of its output goes up the flue

in a staight pass . The flues around the fire are good but the heat

has a small surface to radiate the heat to the room. I had an old

pot bellied stove with a similar flues around the fire pot but they

went up to a cast iron multi flue heat exchanger with a fan behind

it, similar to a heat reclaimer for wood stoves . The size was about

2 feet square with 16 tubes to extract the heat, it could heat a 40'x30'

block no insulation building like nothing with Bit Coal.

BigBarney

fig
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Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
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Stove/Furnace Make: Propane

Post By: fig » Mon. Feb. 11, 2019 10:15 pm

I actually have a Magic Heat reclaimer. I just don't have the room in the stove pipe for it.

Its good to hear it heated a block building because that's what my house is. Uninsulated split faced block built in 1912. It's like a tomb. I haven't had a proper warm winter in it for 20 years. I sure hope this stove does the trick.

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McGiever
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
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Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Mon. Feb. 11, 2019 11:00 pm

fig wrote:
Mon. Feb. 11, 2019 10:15 pm
I actually have a Magic Heat reclaimer. I just don't have the room in the stove pipe for it.
Dang, why'd you put the stove so close to the chimney if you wanted to get a magic-heat in there?
Move that WM left or right some and cheat or ahh, I mean get that magic-heat in there. :P

fig
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
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Post By: fig » Mon. Feb. 11, 2019 11:38 pm

Well I don't have the height in the basement for mpd, Baro, and magic heat. In fact I didn't put the baro in.

My plan was to remove my furnace and situate the stove under the plenum, which I have done. Iam hoping to get some thermo siphoning going . This also made running the stove pipe a bit of a challenge. It's just a trial set up to see what works. I might change things in the end.

I was kind of under the impression that the stove pipe would run too cool to get any useful heat reclamation. I read several posts to that effect. While running the stove on hard coal yesterday the stove pipe was just warm. I could lay my hand on it with out it being very uncomfortable. I did have the mpd nearly all the way closed though. I still had 325* on the jacket. I'll see how it behaves when I crank it up. If I'm throwing too much heat out the chimney I'll try to figure a way to work in the magic heat.
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fig
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Posts: 193
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Other Heating: woodstock fireview, enviro omega
Stove/Furnace Make: Propane

Post By: fig » Tue. Feb. 12, 2019 1:36 pm

Wow what a struggle this bituminous is. I can't keep it going without underfire air for some reason. I started a small fire, got a good bed going, added a scoop every 10 min then once that was going I dumped 3 gallon pail on it and it smoldered for a bit then puffed and took off. It was burning through the corner flues beautifully. I had mpd wide open and feed door vent open. Things looked great with all four flues burning like afterburners. 10 minutes later it was back to smoldering. I opened the ash door vent and got the coal glowing then shut the vent and woosh a pretty big puff, and It took off through the corner flues again. Then it died down to a smolder again. I've just been repeating this sequence for a few hours. Will this ever turn into a glowing bed of coals? I have to leave soon and am getting a bit worried about what to do here.
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Last edited by fig on Tue. Feb. 12, 2019 4:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

fig
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Posts: 193
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Other Heating: woodstock fireview, enviro omega
Stove/Furnace Make: Propane

Post By: fig » Tue. Feb. 12, 2019 4:05 pm

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Well I cancelled my plans for this evening I didn't want to leave this alone. It seems to have finally settled down some. I I'm not sure where the heat is going. The barrel is 225* the mpd is wide open, feed door vent wide open and the stove pipe isn't what I would call hot. I can lay my hand on it for a count of 5. So I'm not sure why I'm only seeing 225* barrel.

fig
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Posts: 193
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Other Heating: woodstock fireview, enviro omega
Stove/Furnace Make: Propane

Post By: fig » Tue. Feb. 12, 2019 5:42 pm

OK I missed the part about controlling the heat output with the ash door vent. I thought that was for anthracite only. I closed the feed door vent and opened the ash door vent about 3/16" and the temps started rising. I'll see where I can level it out at. I'm shooting for 550* to 600*


Update: just hit 460* that's more like it. I'm starting to get some warm air siphoning through my living room heat duct. Warmest that duct been in 15 years. I've turned off the pellet stove in the living room and I have left the one at the north end of the house running for now.


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CoalJockey
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Post By: CoalJockey » Tue. Feb. 12, 2019 6:46 pm

When your firing on bituminous Fig, bear in mind that any bituminous coal, no matter the volatile content, will still coke up in the firebox after time. When you do your firing after shaking the ashes down, you will need to get in there with a big bar or a piece of pipe and bust the coke up before tossing fresh coal in on top. Bituminous requires a little more of a hands-on approach, unlike anthracite where it does not like to be disturbed... you can’t just shake it down and add more coal.

Disregard this post if you are already doing like so. Keep giving it more under fire air and cut the over fire air as you have already done and you will be fine.

fig
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
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Post By: fig » Tue. Feb. 12, 2019 7:23 pm

Actually the past few days have been my first coal experience. Today is my first bituminous experience. I am very open to any guidance.

9 am will be 12 hours since start up so I guess that will be a good time to shake down. I'm just winging it. I have no idea how to know I have poked enough or if I have shaken too much. I'll have to round up a poker. I have a 5 ft. Crow bar that might work. I hate to use it but only other thing I have is some pipe. I'm not sure what to use to poke the underside.
When I reload will it be the same struggle again or will it behave better since its already going?


Can I add some coal beforehand? I only filled it half way this morning.

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Post By: CoalJockey » Tue. Feb. 12, 2019 8:24 pm

Don’t worry about poking the underside, there should be no need to. We don’t run our Warm Mornings on bituminous very often but if we get something new here at the yard we like to try it and see how it burns... sort of our own quality control if you will.

If we are running on bituminous, this would be my typical pattern: First open the top damper wide open to allow gasses to trail up the chimney instead of out through the fire door. Then, start shaking ashes down. Shake until just a few hot embers begin to fall into the pan or you can see a nice orange glow reflecting off the ash if the room is dark. Next, leave the small ash vent open and then open the fire door and begin poking to bust up your coal bed... you do not need to pulverize it but just “fillet” it open and in doing this the fire should come alive. The “coke” should bust up relatively easy without really violent force. Throw a few small shovels of fresh coal in but do not snuff it out, allow some live fire to come up through the bed to assist in burning the gas off. Wait a 2-3 minutes and add a little more coal but again don’t bury it right away. Now you can close your top dampener and adjust the ash door back for your desired air setting which will vary with outside air temperature, etc.

I never bother much with the over air vent in the fire door unless I get it too hot and need to cool the stove down... the hollow corners in the fire bricks usually allows enough air to come up over fire. This is what makes these Warm Mornings such great little stoves in my opinion.

That’s my routine, there may be other members here who would do it differently. In the end you will need to find what works for you but any questions, we are all here to help! Bituminous requires a little more fitness than hard coal but once it is learned it is just as easy to deal with.

fig
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Posts: 193
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
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Stove/Furnace Make: Propane

Post By: fig » Tue. Feb. 12, 2019 8:53 pm

Thanks, that's what I'll do and see how it responds. It's really cooling down so I think it's time to shake, poke and load. Hopefully it'll keep all night the wind chill is 0 tonight.

fig
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Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Other Heating: woodstock fireview, enviro omega
Stove/Furnace Make: Propane

Post By: fig » Wed. Feb. 13, 2019 8:16 am

Well the barrel was 700* when I went to sleep. I closed the mpd nearly all the way and closed the ash vent to about 1/16. I woke up at 2 am to a 62* house.

I went down and the coals were glowing and I think coked up. The barrel was 350*. I shook it down, poked and loaded it again. Got it up to about 550* closed the damper nearly all the way and left the ash vent open about 1/4". I also fired up the pellet stove again. Woke up at 6 am and the pellet stoves had brought the house back up to 70. I went down and looked at the coal stove, again it was at 350* and looked coked up I think.

I shook, poked and loaded. It's sitting at 450* I'm trying to ease it back up to 600*. I think I need at least 600* to get any useful thermo siphoning going. It seems to burn out quickly though. I definitely think I need to put the magic heat in. My chimney is nice and warm. I also see quite a heat signature coming out of it.

fig
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Posts: 193
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Other Heating: woodstock fireview, enviro omega
Stove/Furnace Make: Propane

Post By: fig » Wed. Feb. 13, 2019 12:13 pm

Do I only poke when I shake it down? I am losing barrel temp and I have mpd wide open and ash vent wide open. There is a heavy crust over the coals and it's dark. The coals are glowing underneath it. I feel like I need to bust it open to get it going again.

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McGiever
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Wed. Feb. 13, 2019 3:33 pm

Yes, bust it, but I'd close the bottom air at ash door back to 1/8 or so, or you'll lose control with a run away fire.


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