Warm Morning 523

fig
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Other Heating: woodstock fireview, enviro omega
Stove/Furnace Make: Propane

Post By: fig » Mon. Mar. 11, 2019 11:22 am

With mpd closed -.03 is all I can get with bd wide open. Its not very windy today. Something doesn't seem right because the stove is barely drafting. Getting some smoke out the door when I open it. When I close the bd I get -07. Maybe I'm not using the manometer right. The instructions only cover the buttons and no suggestion on usage. It has a positive port and negative port. I'm using the negative. I tried the positive but I just get the same reading without the minus sign.


Update: I also had a Dwyers mk2. I hooked it up and I'm getting a reading of +4 with bd wide open. I get +2 closing mpd and bd wide open. Don't know why the two manos are reading different nor which one to believe.

Chimney pipe temp entering chimney is about 120*

The stove is definitely burning different. Not sure it's for the better. It's definitely not the monster it was before. Loading is very delicate now as to not smother it, when before, it would take off screaming and I would just dump coal on it trying to slow it down. The flame is much different now. It's much more Blue and it wreaks of gas when I open the door.

I didn't need to add coal this morning so there is 3 five gallon buckets saved. The bd has knocked usage down. No wonder I was burning 9 five gallon buckets a day before.

I definitely need to figure out the bd issue though. Maybe a second mpd is needed. Funny thing is I almost put one in when I was assembling this monstrosity because I needed a short piece and the spare mpd I had was just right. I was afraid it might diminish the draft since I have so many turns and the magic heat impeding draft. Silly me. Should have done it.


fig
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Other Heating: woodstock fireview, enviro omega
Stove/Furnace Make: Propane

Post By: fig » Thu. Mar. 14, 2019 1:51 pm

I think maybe the problem with the mpd is that it has some holes cast into it. They are about the size of a quarter. Two right in the center. This is probably why I'm not seeing any change in the mano when I close it. There is literally no movment in the mano at all when I close the mpd.

KingCoal
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Post By: KingCoal » Fri. Mar. 15, 2019 8:05 am

as Paul has stated in the Blast Gate thread your Mano. tap needs to be the first thing in the pipe outside the stove, then the MPD, then the magic heat if you are going to keep using it, then the Baro. no part of the problem is with the holes in the MPD.

the ONLY reason I close off the holes in my MPD's is because I have a chimney that will suck a cat off the floor on a calm 75* day.

you want the baro. to tell you the collective influence of your Draft controls which it can only do if it's the closest thing to the stove collar.

after moving the mano tap, leave the MPD open and set the Baro. to open at -.02 and watch your results. to control the gas smell when opening the load door use a cloths pin or vise grip ( whatever ) to pin the Baro. closed temporarily to increase draft pressure in the pipe first. then release after tending. you want to see as much blue flame as possible for as long as possible, this shows you are in fact burning the volatiles and not just sending that heat value up the chimney.

also use the Dwyer for now and use the port that shows the results on the right side of the zero, this gives much easier readings.
after you get a baseline this way you can retest your other Baro. and see if it needs further calibration.

you are reaching the top of the learning curve and have gotten there pretty quick, in the next day or so I think you will be comfortable with the results.

steve

fig
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
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Post By: fig » Fri. Mar. 15, 2019 10:38 am

OK thanks. I'll move the mano this weekend. The baro has really changed this stove so I'm re-learning it. I've been waking up to the blue ladies.
IMG_20190315_090938.jpg

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McGiever
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Post By: McGiever » Fri. Mar. 15, 2019 2:24 pm

fig wrote:
Fri. Mar. 15, 2019 10:38 am
The baro has really changed this stove so I'm re-learning it. I've been waking up to the blue ladies.
Image
Some do come around to believe, some never will... :angel:

KingCoal
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Post By: KingCoal » Fri. Mar. 15, 2019 4:02 pm

now now McG, the same results could have been had mechanically with multiple MPD's.

it doesn't matter what tool you use as long as you get the chimney effect brought down to the level the stove designers had in mind.

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McGiever
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
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Post By: McGiever » Fri. Mar. 15, 2019 9:19 pm

KingCoal wrote:
Fri. Mar. 15, 2019 4:02 pm
now now McG, the same results could have been had mechanically with multiple MPD's.

it doesn't matter what tool you use as long as you get the chimney effect brought down to the level the stove designers had in mind.
No disagreement there KC :) Not everyone is so tenacious though. :) Set it and forget it rules for the many. :P

KingCoal
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Post By: KingCoal » Sat. Mar. 16, 2019 8:24 am

in the OP's case, where he has a basement installation and is shooting for as much "automation" of a hand fed as possible i'd probably go for the Baro. too.


fig
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
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Post By: fig » Sat. Mar. 16, 2019 2:18 pm

I moved my mano in front of the mpd and unfortunately it made little difference in my readings. I can get it down to .00 with the mpd fully closed but it doesn't go any lower. This also causes smoke and gas to come out the door so I'm not sure -.02 is a viable setting for my particular set up. With the mpd set to about 2 oclock it's reading +.02 and the baro is about 3/4 of the way open. I've got the baro setting maxed out. I've tried horizontal and vertical weight settings and the results are the same. Overall this is quite an improvement. I'm using far less coal.


I'm still struggling to get the heat upstairs. I'm going to pipe the cold air return directly to the bottom of the heat jacket and see if there is any improvement. I haven't been able to get the main level above 62. The basement is quite warm.


It might be that I need to bring it upstairs. I really don't want to do that. This bit is pretty messy. I haven't quite master the ash removal. I have a fine coat of ash over everything in the basement, which isn't too good for my machines. I've covered them but didn't realize it until they were coated.

KingCoal
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Post By: KingCoal » Sat. Mar. 16, 2019 6:51 pm

ok we have a problem.

from here it seems you aren't understanding what the mano. and baro. do for sure or how the settings are made and understood.

when you close the MPD and see a reading of .00 you have successfully closed off the total draft from the chimney and so it makes sense that the exhaust is coming out of the stove any where it can. i'm sure you opened it back up.

are you using the Dwyer fluid gauge ? if you can, please hook that Mano. up and put the hose from the smoke pipe on the port marked "low" 0n the top of the gauge body. you should see the fluid moving to the right of the "0". this is good because that side of the gauge is larger and you get clearer readings. it's still showing you "negative" pressure just showing it to you on the LARGE side of the gauge face.

as to the Baro. i have never seen one installed in an angled pipe usually either horz. or vert. but, with the mano. set to read on the right of zero and the MPD wide open move the adjustment on the Baro. both right and left slowly and see if you can get it to show you the red fluid 2 lines to the right of zero on the Mano. that reading will be -.02 and exactly what the stove maker recommends, it is also PLENTY of draft to safely and efficiently burn your coal. you have already said you can read as much as -.07 so you have a decent chimney and that is ruled out as any part of the problems.

IF, you can't get the Baro. to show you -.02 on the Mano. either take it out of the "T" and put a cap in it's place or, use something to hold the door completely closed. now read the Mano. while closing the MPD , continue closing till you see -.02 ( 2 lines to the right of zero ) that may be at 45* it might be fully closed. in any case for now just see if you can get it there with the MPD alone.

IF you manage to get a reading of -.02 Mano. it will only be that way as long as the current outside wind conditions and the primary air settings stay the same. if the wind dies down and or you open the ash pan air damper for more heat you will also have to open the MPD more to keep the draft at -.02

this is where the Baro. shines because it will compensate for wind draft and air demand variances on it's own. at some point it will be great if you can get it to work for you.

to get your heated air upstairs you really do need to get the air from upstairs coming down. if you have a stairway coming down into any area of the basement set a box fan at the top of the stairs and angle it down along the stair treads. cool air will go down and warm air will go up both the top of the stair case and up your duct work.

keep at it, you are just about there
steve

ps, for me, i'd never burn Bit. in the living area for the reasons you have found and especially not in this type of stove because it is hard to get the ash out without it flying around. you might try using a shop vac with a drywall bag in it while shaking and removing ash. just set the vac hose in the corner of the door opening and run the vac, it's surprising how well it will grab the fly ash before it escapes into the room.

fig
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
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Post By: fig » Sat. Mar. 16, 2019 7:39 pm

A-ha! That's what I've been doing wrong. I thought to the left of zero was negative. Well that helps alot. It is actually happily hovering two marks to the right of zero or -.02. I was mistaking this for the positive side. Well that makes everything much easier. It's humming right along. Seeing alot of blue on top. Thanks for making that clear to me. I'm as thick as a brick in case you didn't notice. Lol.

KingCoal
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Post By: KingCoal » Sat. Mar. 16, 2019 8:15 pm

So are you controlling it with the Baro or the MPD ?

Either way, welcome to coal easy street

steve

fig
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Posts: 179
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
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Post By: fig » Sat. Mar. 16, 2019 11:04 pm

I needed to use both. I have the baro maxed on its adjustment and it gets it bouncingaround -.03 then I trimmed the mpd back a little to level out at -.02


I could probably knock the baro weight back bit and close the mpd a little more to give the baro more range. I'll play around with it a little more tomorrow. I just got it loaded and settled down for the night.

KingCoal
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: 2-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B, 1 - custom Locke Warm Morning Extended barrel Base Heater Double Heater
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Location: Elkhart county, IN.

Post By: KingCoal » Sun. Mar. 17, 2019 6:38 am

Try this once, see if you can get it down to .02 with just the mpd ( baro door held shut )

If you can do that then, set the Baro knob on .04

That will keep the stove at ultimate draft and the Baro will stay closed more ( keeping more warmed air in the house ) but will come open quick enough in wind gusts to not waste fuel

In the end it will be these little experiments that put the icing on the cake for you

steve

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Post By: franco b » Sun. Mar. 17, 2019 10:05 am

With all the bends and clutter in the smoke pipe, the only way to get a proper draft reading , is over the fire. Drill an appropriate size hole in the fire door to fit a metal tube attached to the hose of Dwyer mano. Leave the hole open when not in use.

Do you shake down with the ash door closed?


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