brand of coal vs consumption??

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firetender
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker K8

Post by firetender » Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 9:11 pm

First time posting here. I have gained much valued information from the board. I have a Keystoker k8 boiler, this will be my 4th season running it. I got it used, replaced the grates and anything that needed attention so that it would be in good serviceable condition. I'm heating a 4000 sf 150 yr old house plus basement with it in Binghamton area of New York. House has new windows and decent insulation but no where near air tight. I go through about 9 ish ton of rice coal a season which I don't think is all that bad for what I'm heating. I clean it out best I can at the beginning of the season, I found it necessary to clean the squirrel cage on the main blower because it collects so much dust that it reduces the air volume so much it reduces the performance of the boiler. I have the small blower closed off and shut off, it makes too much noise and the draft in the chimney is incredible. I set it up as per the manual 1/2" air shutter and adjust the feed so about 2 inch of dead ash at the end of the grates. It keeps up fine with the load of the house.

So here is the dilemma that I have this year, I first noticed an excess of ash, I had been using the bushel tubs and never worried about them overflowing but now the bushels are overflowing. I would fill hopper and take out ash every other day, and the bushel tubs wouldn't be over the top unless it was well below zero outside then I pull the ash sooner. This year I had to get the larger square tubs, I think they are 15 gallon and I will have to take pipe to break up the ash and compact it in the tub, and I am on the same schedule of every other day. So I asked my coal supplier who happens to be my neighbor about this and he told me he switched brands. He had been selling coal from Atlantic Carbon, I guess they stopped selling for home heating this year so this year he switched to Reading. He told me that Reading has more btu content per ton, supposed to be better coal, he said he has noticed the more ash but had turned the feed down on his stove (has a coaltrol), and noticed that he is using less coal. I have had the opposite experience, I have used about 20% more than the pervious 2 seasons, beginning of November till Christmas, I keep track of the number of buckets it takes to fill to a line I put in the hopper. So I had been using 4-6 buckets every 2 days now it is 6-8 every 2 days depending of course on the weather. In the last 2 seasons it came out to 107, and 109 buckets and this year I'm at 132. Also last year we had a newborn and kept the thermostat a bit higher but we have lowered it to about 66 because that is where we are comfortable. Seems like something is out of whack. I saw a post about reducing the air and adjusting the feed to match the air which I tried but I seem to still be going through the same amount of coal, I think the stoker is just running longer to compensate for the reduced btu input. The ash seems to be comply burnt when the unit is under load. Nothing that I know of has changed with the house, no additions or adding space to be heated or windows left open. I am a HVAC contractor so I have a rather good understanding of heating systems and btu load, I know there is no magic and I expect no miracles, you have to replace the btus that are lost to maintain temperature.

I hate to cry bad coal before I exhaust every other option. I am still fairly new to the coal business, do bad batches go out and if that's the case how does one prove they have bad coal? I really would hate to have to carry the remaining 9 plus ton out of the cellar. I guess I am just baffled at this jump in consumption. My current coal supplier is the second that I used, and when I switched to him (last season) the boiler didn't even notice the difference. I tried to ask my keystoker dealer about it, at the time I wasn't sure where the coal was coming from but they also sell coal so I kind of got the hint they sell better coal. But I think every coal dealer says his coal is the best. Also what kind of stack temperatures should I be seeing when it is running at capacity? Think I was around 350 before I made adjustments and 320 ish after I adjusted. It is November and December and I am using the amount that I would daily during the coldest part of the winter in February....Just doesn't make sense. Any thoughts or input would be really appreciated.

 
waytomany?s
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Post by waytomany?s » Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 9:33 pm

Buy 10 bags of another brand. You will have your answer in 2ish days.

 
lzaharis
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Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
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Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Fri. Dec. 30, 2022 10:53 pm

So begins the question, am I a cylinder wrapped in a helix?

Anthracite Coal seams and Anthracite Coal quality can vary
in the BTU and if you are lucky the mine makes test burns of
the coal they mine every day or 2 days and keep adequate
records of thier test burns of a coal sample that has been
taken and split over the shift.

I use Blashack rice coal in my kaa-4-1 stoker and I will explain in
greater detail how I manage my coal burning.

I have part of the draw point of the hopper blocked off.
I have 2 pieces of 1/8" by 2 inch by 6 inch flat stock that
have blocked the hopper draw point off with by blocking
off 4 inches of the hoppers opening and I still have a very
adequate amount of coal coming across the coal grates
and good heat.

My stoker is set with 10 threads out.

Sent you a PM.


I normally run the boiler with 150 degrees Fahrenheit low limit and
170 degrees high limit with a 10 degree differential.

During the last coal spell I turned the low limit and high limit
up by 10 degrees to 160 Fahrenheit low limit and 180 degrees high limit .

I do not have the secondary blower on my stoker and I am glad
I do not have it.

It would be simple enough for you to wander over to weitzmans tomorrow
and buy 2 pieces of 4 inch by 4 inch flat stock or 4" by 1" channel iron and block off
4 inches of the hopper draw point and you will have a finer ash and a good fire.

The draw point on the boiler you have is vertical if I remember correctly and using 2
small pieces of channel iron to block off the hopper draw point will not affect anything
other metering the coal going into the fire grates at the same rate as the coal will still
cover the fire grate and burn well with a fine ash.
I have less ash and no unburned coal and the fire is burning very high in the fire box
with a small roar when I open the viewing door.

You are going to find as I did that you can slow the fed rate down and still make plenty of
heat for your home and simply adjust the high and low limits when needed.

If you do this just back the feed off one thread at a time and you will find the right spot
and it will work for you as it has for me.

 
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Retro_Origin
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Post by Retro_Origin » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 8:00 am

Great questions. I have a k6 and have tried many times to drop the feed rate behind manufacturing specs. The only time I could get away with it was with really good long burning coal or with cold weather when the stoker would then just run longer....I saw no gain from it, you risk outfires. My experience with reading coal was similar, decent btu output but high ash content.

I agree with Leon on the secondary blower. Take it off it just burns more coal in between heat calls.

It’s no secret that I’m not a big fan of the keystoker design. Best thing I’ve found to do to reduce coal consumption is run at lowest temps permitted by emitters, clean boiler transfer surfaces very regularly, be sure draft is right and insulate the boiler. They have a massive amount of surface area


 
firetender
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker K8

Post by firetender » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 12:20 pm

I have some of last year coal that I started the season with used it in Sept and Oct and everything was going fine. Was thinking of trying some but it is in the corner of the bin and not easy to get to ( it is bulk).

Keith, I agree with you on the design. I have looked and researched boilers and there are better designs out there, would much rather have an EFM or AA for the auger feed, but I can live with this one for what it saves me over oil especially this year. I couldn't pass up the deal I got on the K8. It was 12-14 yr old kind of rough, due to lack of maintenance, needed grates and the ash door wasn't closing right, they must have been loosing so much heat up the stack. It was 400 bucks loaded on my trailer and by the time I bought repair parts and installation parts probably had 1500 into it installed. I do have the jacket on it, though any heat lost goes into the cellar that is heated so it is not really lost heat. Draft is tricky because of the high draft of the chimney, actually have an extra weight on the barometric damper to compensate. Have you found any good brushes to use in the boiler? I end up using a paint scraper and whatever I can find to get up there, the brushes I get for gas and oil service are so small they don't do much in the K8.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 12:21 pm

Best thing I’ve found to do to reduce coal consumption is run at lowest temps permitted by emitters, clean boiler transfer surfaces very regularly, be sure draft is right and insulate the boiler. They have a massive amount of surface area.
That will serve you well with any boiler.

 
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Retro_Origin
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Post by Retro_Origin » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 12:41 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 12:21 pm
That will serve you well with any boiler.
Actually I lie, best thing I’ve found is just replace the KA with the AA 😁😁😁

Haha , as far as brushes I just use a nylon brush with a 15”ish handle. I should have a wire one but I can get my hand up there pretty far.
My basement is always at least 73-76 degrees so I really should be careful how much I pick on my keystoker, without proper insulation I’m actually getting a stove effect in the basement and then expect it to be a boiler on top of that

 
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nepacoal
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Coal Size/Type: Buck

Post by nepacoal » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 12:44 pm

A bbq brush works great in my Kaa-4 and our EFM...

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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 3:06 pm

Retro_Origin wrote:
Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 12:41 pm
Actually I lie, best thing I’ve found is just replace the KA with the AA 😁😁😁
I think the AA will save you come coal over the current setup, but it seems like insulating the K6 would have had a better ROI.

 
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Retro_Origin
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Post by Retro_Origin » Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 5:16 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Sat. Dec. 31, 2022 3:06 pm
I think the AA will save you come coal over the current setup, but it seems like insulating the K6 would have had a better ROI.
Maybe for some people but I didn’t have to buy mine. 😁😁 although with the few parts I had to buy it added some. Plan to sell the lesser boiler as well

 
Den034071
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Post by Den034071 » Mon. Jan. 02, 2023 9:37 am

Sent you a P M .jack

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