Silt and maybe ash rocks in feed ok or no?

Post Reply
 
Arel3
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 7:01 pm
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by Arel3 » Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 7:46 pm

I'm not experienced with coal stokers with boilers. I don't know a thing about them other than they burn coal to heat water for the hot water supply for the radiators and spigots. About a month ago the fire went out. The person that usually cares for it cleaned and restarted it. A week later it shut down again, supposedly from overheating due to hot weather, and it stuffed it self full of coal because it kept feeding before someone noticed it was out and shut the feed off. The person that usually cares for it is MIA.

Another housemate shoveled out what over flowed and put it back in the feed barrel. What they put in the feed barrel is extremely dusty/powdery, could have hard ash and flyash in it for all I know. Is this an issue or is it ok to start it and run that stuff through?

I don't want to do all the extra work cleaning the feed barrel out, have extra down time, cause the mess emptying it's going to cause, and waste coal that's good if it's ok to run it.

I haven't done anything to avoid causing a worse situation by not knowing. The "family" needs hot water though, of course. We can't afford an HVAC service. I'm capable of doing it....if I knew what to do. My 30 years of mechanics experience taught me the bad situations people doing things with no knowledge on the subject can cause: The reason I'm researching and asking before doing.

Attachments

stoker_barrel_view.jpg

the feed barrel. I'm not sure the photo is good enough to share how dusty this stuff is. There's quite a bit of powderized coal in it and for all I know there's ash and flyash in it too.

.JPG | 419.9KB | stoker_barrel_view.jpg
stoker_feed_leak.jpg

the feed seems to be leaking. This is where the feed pipe meets the feed barrel. In my experience this can be a symptom that will eventually cause problems (a blow out, too much pressure in the pipe) which is why I've not done anything until I know for sure.

.JPG | 270.4KB | stoker_feed_leak.jpg
stoker_logo.jpg

The only logo I can find on it

.JPG | 166.5KB | stoker_logo.jpg
stoker_numbers.jpg

The only form of numbers (except for on electric motors) I can find. I don't know where a data plate would be on these things and can't find it.

.JPG | 297.5KB | stoker_numbers.jpg
stoker_pot.jpg

The stoker pot. Inside where the fire is.

.JPG | 302.1KB | stoker_pot.jpg
Last edited by Richard S. on Tue. Aug. 09, 2022 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited title

 
User avatar
Richard S.
Mayor
Posts: 15183
Joined: Fri. Oct. 01, 2004 8:35 pm
Location: NEPA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Post by Richard S. » Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 8:27 pm

Arel3 wrote:
Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 7:46 pm
A week later it shut down again, supposedly from overheating due to hot weather, and it stuffed it self full of coal because it kept feeding before someone noticed it was out and shut the feed off.
It's not uncommon in the shoulder months and summer time. What happens is you wake up in the morning and everyone takes a shower, it's running for quite some time and gets a giant mound of fresh burning coal. Demand ceases and it overshoots the hi temp limit. Depends but you might have a 4 to 6 hour window for it to fire again, the hi temp never drops enough in that window and it goes out.

There is various ways to overcome this like a timer which will fire it for short time on set interval. Someone else more familiar summer time EFM settings can chime in.
What they put in the feed barrel is extremely dusty/powdery,
Fines and ash won't harm anything but it should be avoided, especially the fines as this can cause problems with keeping it going, If it's mostly fines it's best to dispose of it. If anything shovel it into some buckets and slowly add it mixing it with fresh coal.

As far as the feed barrel inspect the pipe, they can usually be corroded on the end but as long as there is no holes don't worry about anything "leaking" out of the barrel. Look at this way, you can remove the barrel and just pile coal on top of the worm. The barrel is an addition that makes things a little easier.

 
hank2
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat. Dec. 10, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Berks County
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1400 WH ciculator; 1880's small cannon in reserve
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: small New Yorker oil fired boiler; mostly used for domestic HW

Post by hank2 » Tue. Aug. 09, 2022 12:28 am

I've been away from stoker boilers for at least 20 years but I'll throw out a couple of thoughts on fire outs.

Has the stoker/boiler been serviced and cleaned out at all recently? Including piping and heat flow through/around the boiler. I never had an EFM so I don't know the brand or design but they all get messed up. It does have to be able to draw and draft.

I ran an old Bair-matic for about 18 years and then a Keystoker at another house for another 5 years. Went to oil boilers in both places. Even though the Keystoker was more recent, I can't recall the timer set up on that. The Bair-matic had an electro-mechanical timer box that had a couple of removal sections on the timer wheel. I guess the idea was to take out one or both of those sections for summer use to make the blower and feed come on more frequently. After some years I think I lost the inserts, so was on summer timer all the time. No harm, as the old girl had to work real hard all Winter anyhow.

I had used especially hard coal for some years, like Greenwood-Lehigh, Jeddo HL and Reading was some good hard coal back then. I was still getting a fair amount of summer fire outs. On the advice of the dedicated coal hauler that I had, I switched to Blaschak for summers, which was softer (not junk soft, just softer mix) and higher ash. I usually did three 3-ton loads a year and got Blaschak on the Spring/Summer load. Depending on what you are now burning and what you can get where you live.

--Arel3, I missed that you had mentioned that the unit had been cleaned.

 
Arel3
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 7:01 pm
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by Arel3 » Tue. Aug. 09, 2022 2:20 am

Richard S. wrote:
Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 8:27 pm
It's not uncommon in the shoulder months and summer time. What happens is you wake up in the morning and everyone takes a shower, it's running for quite some time and gets a giant mound of fresh burning coal. Demand ceases and it overshoots the hi temp limit. Depends but you might have a 4 to 6 hour window for it to fire again, the hi temp never drops enough in that window and it goes out.
There are 4 adults living in the home. All of us are on completely different schedules. The furnace/boiler does not get blasted with being used at a certain time of day and have to catch up. For the most part the hot water is at rest in the boiler tank most of the time. It might be that we don't use the hot water enough? Maybe?

With what you said it's making me think that if we used hot water more often it would help keep the furnace running longer and the water temperature regulated?
Richard S. wrote:
Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 8:27 pm
Fines and ash won't harm anything but it should be avoided, especially the fines as this can cause problems with keeping it going, If it's mostly fines it's best to dispose of it. If anything shovel it into some buckets and slowly add it mixing it with fresh coal.
Can it be started without risking damaging anything?

See the photos I attached if you haven't, please. It's mostly rice. If a little coal dust isn't going to hurt anything I'd rather use the coal we have. I can deal with it going out and having to relight it if that's all the dust in it's going to cause. I'll check it every couple hours for a week or 3 until the dusty stuff is used up.
Richard S. wrote:
Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 8:27 pm
As far as the feed barrel inspect the pipe, they can usually be corroded on the end but as long as there is no holes don't worry about anything "leaking" out of the barrel. Look at this way, you can remove the barrel and just pile coal on top of the worm. The barrel is an addition that makes things a little easier.
I did inspect the pipe by running my hands along it slowly and looking at it everywhere really good. I didn't see any cracks or corrosion signs similar to rust bubbles or anything that would indicate there's any corrosion or damage. I think it just leaked out of the barrel over time and formed that pile that's there in front of the barrel because it's not sealed, the feed pipe just sits in there.


 
User avatar
Richard S.
Mayor
Posts: 15183
Joined: Fri. Oct. 01, 2004 8:35 pm
Location: NEPA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Post by Richard S. » Tue. Aug. 09, 2022 6:43 am

Arel3 wrote:
Tue. Aug. 09, 2022 2:20 am
There are 4 adults living in the home. All of us are on completely different schedules. The furnace/boiler does not get blasted with being used at a certain time of day and have to catch up. For the most part the hot water is at rest in the boiler tank most of the time. It might be that we don't use the hot water enough? Maybe?
It doesn't necessarily need to be many people, it's not catching up. It's maintaining the temp.

.
With what you said it's making me think that if we used hot water more often it would help keep the furnace running longer and the water temperature regulated?
Using small amounts of hot water can help under set circumstances. If the boiler water temp is way over the hi limit you can help drop it by using domestic hot water. What you want to avoid is dropping it so low it fires. This is not a great solution though unless you have use for the hot water, there is other ways to manage it.

Can it be started without risking damaging anything?
You should be fine.

 
Arel3
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 7:01 pm
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by Arel3 » Tue. Aug. 09, 2022 12:50 pm

Yeah that's the catch 22 I have in mind: run hot water just to use it or have the furnace go out because it's not firing enough then having to relight it and have a mess of coal to clean up until the summer season is over.
Is a timer the solution for that? Or are there other options or things we can do that are not expensive and simple to do like do the dishes more often, use hot water for laundry instead of cold all the time, take more baths and showers: generally just use more hot water to keep the temp regulated?

The water temp is what controls whether our stoker runs and fires the way it's set up.

 
Arel3
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 7:01 pm
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by Arel3 » Tue. Aug. 09, 2022 1:18 pm

Now, as I said, I have no experience with caring for a coal fueled heating system. When I light it do I leave the feed screw off and manually feed it until the temp comes up or...how do I adjust the feed so it doesn't constantly run and feed and stuff it full until the temp comes up but still gets enough air to stay lit? It seems like the way mine is set up the blower and feed screw is on the same circuit.

I'm not positive this is it. All I can find on the thing that resembles some sort of model number or something is:
AP-520-1-31

I'm a retired mechanic that maintained, rebuilt, refurbished, repaired hydraulics, transmissions, gear boxes, differentials, pneumatics (air compressors), diesel engines, earth moving equipment, transfer cases, manufacturing machines, etc. I can do this! I'm reluctant to just go at it because those experience taught me, very well, not knowing can be dangerous and cause more issues. My ignorance and lack of experience with these things and not having a service manual for this thing with exploded views....I don't touch things I don't know anything about and can't find the documents to learn from.

 
User avatar
Richard S.
Mayor
Posts: 15183
Joined: Fri. Oct. 01, 2004 8:35 pm
Location: NEPA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Post by Richard S. » Tue. Aug. 09, 2022 3:07 pm

Arel3 wrote:
Tue. Aug. 09, 2022 12:50 pm
The water temp is what controls whether our stoker runs and fires the way it's set up.
That's the boiler water temp, just so it's clear there is what they call a water jacket that heats the domestic hot water. It's a long length of wound copper pipe that sits in the boiler water.

If you are using a small mount of hot water you can shed some of the heat in the boiler water. It will heat back up if you have a large but if you shed enough of it will fire sooner down the road before it goes out.

I'm not sure abut the EFM's but in the summer months I keep another boiler with a lo of 140 and hi or 160. In the colder weather I keep it at 160 and 180.

the timer is the best solution but leave that to someone else to answer more familiar with EFM's.


----------------------------------------------------

You need to clean that pot out completely and build a fire in the pot to light it. Patience is the key, they generally don't recommend using wood because if it doesn't get burned up it can possibly get stuck in and break a mechanism when its ejected from the pot. If you have some charcoal around try lighting it with that.

Lighting a Van Wert (or Any Underfed Stoker)

EFM manuals can be found here:
https://www.efmheating.com/index.php/efm-online-manuals

There is also an extensive library of pictures and tutorials from Stoker-man who worked for EFM here:
Post by stoker-man - Popular Coal Boiler Topics


 
Arel3
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 7:01 pm
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by Arel3 » Wed. Aug. 10, 2022 3:43 am

Thank you very much. I have seen that manuals page. The AP-520-1-31 manual doesn't seem to be there.

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Wed. Aug. 10, 2022 12:16 pm

Call EFM and ask them for help. 1- 570-385-1892

I have attached a copy of the AP-900 manual if that helps.

Attachments

AP-900 Boiler-Stoker-Manual.pdf
.PDF | 1.7MB | AP-900 Boiler-Stoker-Manual.pdf

 
Arel3
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon. Aug. 08, 2022 7:01 pm
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by Arel3 » Thu. Aug. 11, 2022 5:05 am

Thank you! I didn't hit the contact link until now. Strange and interesting at the same time that's my city. Their address is down town a few hundred feet away, sweet! I know they'll send me a manual if they have one. I can't afford paying for service. I would have had an HVAC service to do what was needed a month ago when it shut down the first time if I wasn't stretching pennies to keep the family fed. I hate futzing with things I don't know anything about but I don't have a choice.

I got it lit around 10pm. Unfortunately it seems to have started going out again around 3am. It doesn't seem to have run at all in 4-5 hours. I ran hot water and dropped the temp to 175ish from 190 but it didn't kick on. Does the temp have to be lower than that for it to kick the fan and feed on?

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Thu. Aug. 11, 2022 8:48 am

Arel3 wrote:
Wed. Aug. 10, 2022 3:43 am
Thank you very much. I have seen that manuals page. The AP-520-1-31 manual doesn't seem to be there.
The DF520 manual will have all the relevant information you need: http://cdn.efmheating.com/DF520-Installation.pdf

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Thu. Aug. 11, 2022 12:04 pm

And another thing *Arel3* is that the “tankless coil” for DHW can over time become scaled or fouled with internal water minerals which slows down the transfer of heat. A chemical/ acid circulated flush if already plumbed for such is a good fix there.

Know this wasn’t the complaint but thought it worth mentioning.

Post Reply

Return to “Stoker Coal Boilers Using Anthracite (Hydronic & Steam)”