Thermostat Cycle Rate for Steady Room Temperature

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Thu. Dec. 02, 2021 6:42 pm

Oh that's Bonez, our Great Dane. He's a gentle giant lol. He does move a lot of air when he's panting. The worst is the tail though.. Our grand daughter is just at the right height that she gets slapped upside the head when we come home and he's happy to see us :lol:


 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Thu. Dec. 02, 2021 6:44 pm

Dudest wrote:
Thu. Dec. 02, 2021 6:18 pm
My radient setup leaves my house at the 69 setpoint, never varying by even one degree. Love it.
Nice! No chance of radiant here though unless I put in some kind of sub floor.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Thu. Dec. 02, 2021 8:38 pm

Lightning wrote:
Thu. Dec. 02, 2021 6:44 pm
Nice! No chance of radiant here though unless I put in some kind of sub floor.
Is there any insulation under the slab?

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Thu. Dec. 02, 2021 8:52 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Thu. Dec. 02, 2021 8:38 pm
Is there any insulation under the slab?
Not likely.. it was a garage.. but I did put a layer of tar paper down then 3/4 inch plywood then laminate flooring on top of that.

 
User avatar
CoalisCoolxWarm
Member
Posts: 2323
Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
Location: Western PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Thu. Dec. 02, 2021 9:35 pm

What I am planning to do some day on the concrete slab is:

2 layers of 1" xps foam, staggering and taping the joints, then following this site's example.

https://ibuildit.ca/projects/installing-and-finis ... -flooring/

https://youtu.be/Dxmx7qxR-nk

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Fri. Dec. 03, 2021 8:40 am

We do know that Plywood bleeds temperatures well enough that the PEX below plywood will readily warm the space above it.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Fri. Dec. 03, 2021 11:56 am

Lightning wrote:
Thu. Dec. 02, 2021 8:52 pm
Not likely.. it was a garage.. but I did put a layer of tar paper down then 3/4 inch plywood then laminate flooring on top of that.
No insulation = no radiant. The last thing you want to do is attempt to heat the earth.


 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Fri. Dec. 03, 2021 12:40 pm

McGiever wrote:
Fri. Dec. 03, 2021 8:40 am
We do know that Plywood bleeds temperatures well enough that the PEX below plywood will readily warm the space above it.
This is NOT to suggest radiant in this situation but rather that the plywood has near nill insulation to heat movement as plywood does allow for radiant installation from a basement below. 😀

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Fri. Dec. 03, 2021 4:03 pm

My IR gun went missing or I'd hit the floor with it to see how cold the floor is.. I can tell you though that's its not terrible on bare feet.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Fri. Dec. 03, 2021 10:06 pm

Oh plywood has a “R” value so we know it slows the heat movement.

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Sat. Dec. 04, 2021 7:19 am

Rob R. wrote:
Fri. Dec. 03, 2021 11:56 am
No insulation = no radiant. The last thing you want to do is attempt to heat the earth.
I don’t want to hijack the thread… but I’ve been reading of a lot of people that are not insulating there slabs, or only insulating around the edge, maybe a 4’ sheet wide… now idk about this… but at over $40/sheet I do wonder what your saving… and it would most certainly matter what type of ground your on, I would absolutely not do it on a clay and or wet area, but on a good high centered gravel that doesn’t have any moisture, maybe…?

Only reason im into this is im in the early planning of my garage/shop and it’s a huge thought, I am on straight gravel, absolutely no moisture in the ground, I’m looking at around $3500 for 2” board with current prices.. it’s making me strongly consider a modine, and is probably the biggest hang up on actually starting the project.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Sat. Dec. 04, 2021 7:38 am

You are correct that the radiant insulation is more important around the perimeter, but I would not skip it in the center. Ideally the slab and frost wall would be insulated even if you were using a Modine heater. The under-slab insulation is something you only get to do once, and it pays you back every day. I went through the same evaluation with our addition and decided to listen to the engineer's recommendation, which I have attached. It takes practically nothing to heat the new structure.

Attachments

Screenshot 2021-12-04 073243.png
.PNG | 146.6KB | Screenshot 2021-12-04 073243.png

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Sat. Dec. 04, 2021 7:45 am

I’m considering a monolithic, I can completely understand an addition or something, but talking myself into this is hard lol but I don’t want to regret it, it is just a garage, but at 40x60x16 I do also want to insulate best I can, but I also don’t want to build something better than my house.. lol

With the drawing you displayed, I’m supposed there’s no insulation between the wall and side of slab, usually there is.. in that illustration your actually sending heat into the ground via the slab to wall contact and no insulation on the inside of the footer wall, or no insulation in between the slab and footer wall, your sending heat up into the stud walls.

I am considering ICF forms if I do a footer wall then insulation under slab, in a perfect world with no option to money.

Also another worry I’ve always had, a week long cold snap power outage or circulator or fan malfunction…

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Tue. Dec. 07, 2021 4:03 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sat. Dec. 04, 2021 7:45 am

With the drawing you displayed, I’m supposed there’s no insulation between the wall and side of slab, usually there is.. in that illustration your actually sending heat into the ground via the slab to wall contact and no insulation on the inside of the footer wall, or no insulation in between the slab and footer wall, your sending heat up into the stud walls.
I had all of the same thoughts. I was assured the system would perform well and it does. PEX is set back from the perimeter a bit, so the heat transfer into frost wall is minimal. Ground is well drained item 4, and stud wall is full of spray foam. 90 degree water, runs a few minutes per hr to keep room 72F, and the room temperature is very stable.

Lee, how is your throttled heat exchanger working?

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Tue. Dec. 07, 2021 4:08 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Tue. Dec. 07, 2021 4:03 pm
Lee, how is your throttled heat exchanger working?
I haven't tried throttling the hot water supply to the exchanger yet.. but the increased cycle frequency of the blower has made a big difference in the temperature swings of the room.


Post Reply

Return to “Stoker Coal Boilers Using Anthracite (Hydronic & Steam)”