VanWert VA600 to an EFM 520 install

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LTStorm07
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2012 8:32 pm
Location: Stillwater, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1980 EFM DF520
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Heat pump / Propane

Post by LTStorm07 » Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 4:05 pm

Hey good afternoon everyone,
I wanted to make a post to update those who originally offered some insight to my VanWert dilemma in the new house I purchased last year. I talked about the VanWert that was in the basement and options in the previous thread in case anyone wants to be brought up to speed: VanWert VA600 help.

After some thorough discussions with members and Scrapper, the VanWert couldn't be saved due to too much abuse by the previous owners due to lack of maintenance, DHW coils leaking, failed pressure test, and more. So thanks to a buddy and a skid steer, it came out of the basement without too much trouble. A harbor freight 4 wheel dolly, straps, and straight lift out of the basement helped immensely.
Before I started
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Empty spot from the VanWert
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Read to be strapped and lifted
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Going to the scrapyard
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So the next order of business was to see what I could get to replace it from Scrapper. I have a new heat pump and a propane modulating condensing boiler, but coal is much cheaper to heat compared to propane, especially given the current market. I even own my own tanks (1500 gallons worth), purchase wholesale, and its still cheaper to run coal. Last year I paid $0.94 a gallon for propane, and last I filled them in August this year at $1.54. I only filled them for summer DWH usage or if something went amiss with my coal plans. I originally had a EFM 350 in mind, but Scrapper did not have one available so instead I took him up on an offer of a fully restored 1980 EFM 520 DF with new covers an all. I chose to not have a DHW coil put in since I have an indirect heater that works as just another zone with priority.

Scrapper's build
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This was picking up the EFM from scrapper and arriving home with it. It was great to chat with Scrapper and his wife as they are both a wealth of information. They actually had the whole unit fully assembled for me, then disassembled it for me to show me exact how it all goes together. While I was there, I also provided Scrapper with the entire stoker assembly and rings of the VanWert for potentially a future project he may have.
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Using 2x harbor freight 4 wheel dollies, I was able to strap the boiler head to them butted against each other by using the skid steer to lift it onto them. This made it easy to move it around in my garage (basement access is inside attached garage) and in the basement moving it into lift position for the base. Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures of the lift off the trailer, setting onto the dollies, and the chain hoist drop into the basement from the skid steer forks. It all went pretty smoothly, but was tight dropping it down the stairwell straight to the landing below due to clearances. Sorry for no pictures of this process!

Once in the basement, after a lot of thought about how to actually lift the head onto the base without losing any fingers or toes, I went with one recommendation I saw that was really K.I.S.S.. 2x 2x8s standing vertical, screwed to the floor joists above to keep them from moving with a jack hammer point across. Why a jack hammer point? My father throws nothing away and it was beefier than a digging iron I had. With this setup and a 1ton chain hoist, it was actually a piece of cake to lift. The jack hammer point flexed maybe a half inch, but straightened right back up once I took the weight off it.
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Next thing I had to figure out was how to put it together in the current spot then move it where I wanted it to be sitting on top of 4x8 blocks. I live above a multiple underground streams so it can get a bit wet at times in my basement. So I figured I'd really put one of the harbor freight dollies to the test. I stripped the base of everything, prepped it with boiler putty as Scrapper and EFM instructions told me, and set the base on the dolly, wheeled it under the head and set the whole head down on it. I fully expected the 4 wheels to buckle or something, but they didn't to my surprise. I couldn't use 2 of them like I did for the head because I couldn't get my concrete blocks under it while trying to remove both dollies would be a nightmare. So with one dolly it actually was able to roll into it's spot about 5 foot away. Thanks to a floor jack and a helper, it was set in place.
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Drum and auger, with a coalvac in the process of being built.
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Then I was onto to plumbing and stove pipe. For this part, I have a friend who owns a HVAC business that assisted me. Basically it was just his labor charge for him and a helper. I had a mess of old plumbing that had to go. This was because my house had been heated by oil, coal, outdoor wood boiler, and propane and there were a lot of left over plumbing runs, things were hodgepodge put together such as 1.25 -> .75 reducers, increasers, etc. So we switched it all over to 1 in copper with 1.25 supply and returns going to the 520. Plumbing was done with almost a custom manifold fashion. I have no bottle necks and everything works quiet well. While I was at it, I also replaced the 20 year old water to air heat exchanged at the end of the heat pump air handler with a brand new one 22x25 unit. When running 180 degree water, 10 gpm and my fan speed, it can push 150k BTU. My goal was to run it at 160 instead to have less standby loss, and more headroom if needed. I have a water to air heat exchanger design calculator that I ran numbers through in order to figure out what I could do based on gpm, fan, water etc.

8in stove pipe to 38ft chimney - chimney did not have a cap installed so I had a new powder coated one installed so it wouldn't eventually rust
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Near Boiler plumbing
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Supplies and returns - I have temp gauages on all the returns and some supplies. This way I can track delta Ts.
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Coil temp design I came up with
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One thing that was done by the previous owners was to setup the garage to be heated by plumbing lines in the walls that ran from the basement to the ceiling for a Modine, but never hooked up to anything. So I figured I'd finish the job..
Old outdoor wood boiler lines repurposed for garage heat.
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Basic coal bin was started here by previous owner, but never finished
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Garage heat exchanger - this was the one from the basement but I flushed it for a week, pressure tested, built fan shroud, put in a 1500cfm fan, and wired it to an extra t-stat I had left over from the heat pump install. The stat is overkill but I had it.
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While I was at it, I figured I'd finish the coal bin as well. Coal bin 14ftx7x4ft
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Wiring the boiler with a Hydrostat 3250+ w/ remote install, Honeywell failsafe cutoff, and reusing the mercury timer from the VanWert. I am using a Tekmar 306P Switching Relay since I wanted a system that could purge last pump. This was so that I prevented overshoot temps with both coal and the modulating condensing boiler. The modulating condensing boiler did this with it's own controls, but since now everything was going to be running off a switching relay, I needed something that could do the same. The Tekmar is awesome as it has priority, pump exercising, and post purge of last zone calling (even if not the priority zone). I could not find this in a Taco relay.
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After all said and done, I finally fired it up little over 2 weeks ago and it's been humming ever since. I fired it by following Stoker Don's Youtube video of him lighting his Gentlemen Janitor with the S-20 stoker in it. I had no trouble getting it lit and running, but it smoked a bit on the fire door due to the fresh paint.
First fire and coming up to temp
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LTStorm07
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2012 8:32 pm
Location: Stillwater, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1980 EFM DF520
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Heat pump / Propane

Post by LTStorm07 » Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 4:11 pm

After some time fine tuning, I've settled on 5 teeth, 4.5 air as my indirect DHW was sure hitting the boiler hard. I wasn't comfortable with temps dropping below 140 if it was running hard so 5 teeth helped offset this.
This was how things were looking now and ash results
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It doesn't have to run much as the heat pump takes care of things except when it starts to fall behind due to cold temps. Then the boiler helps it along as stage 3 on a heat call. I also have had no trouble with outfires thanks to the timer. The other day it was 67 here and I had no issues. Draft was light at like 0.3 at the stack, but no CO issues or smell.

Sorry for the long post, but it's been a busy summer / fall and I really enjoy reading others' stories so I thought I'd share. While this was all going on, I had an additional insulation added to the attic, air sealed, and the rim joist was professionally spray foamed. I can say it's a night an day difference in this house compared to last year.

Best!

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 4:56 pm

Looks real good L. Ya gotta love patience & good old American ingenuity. :)

 
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Rob R.
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Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 5:09 pm

You have been busy - I know the feeling.

Was there not enough room for the EFM to go where the Van Wert once sat? From the pictures it looks like it would fit with a reduced length bin auger. The way you have it now is very similar to how mine used to be. It worked fine, but the long stove pipe was not fun to handle when it came time for a cleaning.


 
LTStorm07
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2012 8:32 pm
Location: Stillwater, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1980 EFM DF520
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Heat pump / Propane

Post by LTStorm07 » Mon. Nov. 29, 2021 5:30 pm

Hey Rob, I wanted it to go where the VanWert was but there was absolutely no space around in case I need to work on anything. From the back of the Vanwert to the back wall was a whole 18 inches. This was great for the short stack, but the plumbing was all wrapped around it and to work on ANY other plumbing in that area it was a nightmare. Then I have the issue at times water runs across that ledge where the Vanwert was so I couldn't fit the blocks + efm with enough headspace. I tried every which way to maybe put it there, but it wasn't going to happen. At the front of the VanWert on the floor is also a low spot for water to collect then runs to a drain to the right. So even if I moved it away from the wall, for a few months of the year it would literally be sitting on blocks in standing / moving water. At the end of the day, I figured by placing it where I did, I could easily work on anything. I will probably run 2.5 - 3 tons a year though is my estimate based on propane I used last year as stage 3 for the heat pump, and so I'm hoping a once a year cleaning is instore. I hope to run it all summer for DHW and basement dehumidification too.

 
Pacowy
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Location: Dalton, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Post by Pacowy » Sat. Dec. 04, 2021 1:28 pm

In the pic of the fire the ash ring looks wider than it should be. After a long run it should be like 2".

Mike

 
LTStorm07
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2012 8:32 pm
Location: Stillwater, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1980 EFM DF520
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Heat pump / Propane

Post by LTStorm07 » Sat. Dec. 04, 2021 7:00 pm

Pacowy wrote:
Sat. Dec. 04, 2021 1:28 pm
In the pic of the fire the ash ring looks wider than it should be. After a long run it should be like 2".

Mike
I was thinking the same, but the issue I run into is that it never fires more than say 45 mins at a time, more often idling along right now. I know I've seen it closer to the edge, but it takes quite a bit of run time to get it there.

The way my t-stats and zoning panel works is that stage 1 is variable speed blower with stage 1 heat pump, stage 2 increases blower and triggers stage 2 heat pump, if after a hour of stage 2 runtime things haven't reverse staged back to stage 1 on the panel, it'll start stage 3 which is the boiler water to air heat exchanger. Until it gets consistently in the teens/low 20s, the heatpump handles it all on its own for the most part. Boiler is also triggered for garage heat, DHW, and defrost mode. Attached insulated garage still maintaining 50 without any heat yet. I thought I had too much air at 4.5 but I left it alone since the one time it seemed to have a 2 inch ash ring. Once we get some really cold days we'll see how things work. I may have to drop air down?

Another thing I ran into is that it's a good thing I didn't put the covers on yet as I noticed the DHW coil cover was slowly leaking. It's all brand new but I wasn't sure about snugging the nuts up. I went ahead and snugged them up, but I was trying to watch the gasket bulge but didnt really see it happening. They were pretty loose in my opinion. The leak appeared to dry up, but I just checked it an it was leaking a bit again. While writing this I figured I should check just in case again and sure enough tiny leak again. I was able to snug the bolts up more yet without really wrenching on them. I did notice the gasket starting to bulge a little in spots but I don't know if I should tighten more or wait to see if it leaks again. I wish there was a torque specification for it. If there's any recommendations let me know. I'm sure I could tighten it more but don't want to rip a gasket.

I also noticed my boiler pressure swinging quite a bit based on boiler temps so I added a new Amtrol SX-30V floor mount unit with a 14 gal capacity. Since doing this my pressure has completely stabilized so that seemed to work. I only had a small Amtrol 30 (4.4gal) unit.

Thanks,
Mike

 
LTStorm07
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2012 8:32 pm
Location: Stillwater, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1980 EFM DF520
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Heat pump / Propane

Post by LTStorm07 » Sat. Dec. 04, 2021 7:05 pm

Coil
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 10:39 am

I don't think you want to see any more gasket squeezed out than that - go around the nuts a few more times and make sure they are all about the same torque. You likely have one or two that are a bit looser than the rest.

 
LTStorm07
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2012 8:32 pm
Location: Stillwater, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1980 EFM DF520
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Heat pump / Propane

Post by LTStorm07 » Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 10:09 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Sun. Dec. 05, 2021 10:39 am
I don't think you want to see any more gasket squeezed out than that - go around the nuts a few more times and make sure they are all about the same torque. You likely have one or two that are a bit looser than the rest.
I snugged them up again tonight as a different nut was weeping. I mean it's not even dripping per day, it's as if someone drew a tiny wet line part way down. I took out one of my small torque wrenches to check and still could tighten without it clicking on the lowest setting of 20 in lbs. Which is like 1.7 ft lbs. I figured I may give Scrapper Jr a call tomorrow to see what his thoughts are on it. I feel like I could easily keep tightening. I saw a post someone mentioned 10-15ft lbs as a figure for a new gasket, well that's 120+ in lbs and I'm no where near that. I'd sheer it before that I bet. The only other thing I was thinking if is my temp swings were too much in the boiler. I have my bypass installed but had it pretty much closed off, I had the temps set to 160 but I was still swinging down to 140ish, maybe even 138. I bumped my low up to 165 and opened the bypass 3/4 of the way. I'll see how my temps react, if that even is an issue. Don't understand how it went weeks without an issue to now having one.

 
LTStorm07
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue. Sep. 11, 2012 8:32 pm
Location: Stillwater, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1980 EFM DF520
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Heat pump / Propane

Post by LTStorm07 » Tue. Dec. 07, 2021 8:53 pm

Just an update - I spoke to Scrapper Jr yesterday and he was stumped as well. He said typically they leak went cold, not hot. Very odd to say the least. After I sent him some pictures, he is sending out a new gasket but told me to keep tightening them and see if it stops. He said you can actually tighten them an awful lot and the gasket should be fine. I asked him about tearing it, but he said keep tightening and checking, but either way a new gasket it on the way just in case, and as long as I keep it below 56 ft/lbs I won't shear the 1/2 studs. :what: :lol:

So I really tighten them up yesterday and things really slowed up / stopped, 1 nut had a tiny damp mark that I went back and tightened a bit more so we'll see. Watching the boiler pressure just in case, and it stays pretty much dead even with 14 psi no matter what since I put the larger expansion tank in.

I also backed my air down to just over 4 and still running 5 teeth and things are running good with no unburnt coal that I can see so far...

Thanks,
Mike

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