Putting my AA130 to use

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Retro_Origin
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Post by Retro_Origin » Thu. Sep. 09, 2021 7:27 pm

So I have a AA130 (1959 I think) in my garage, it's a 20 x 40 block building (was a chicken house). There used to be a livable apartment upstairs (now it's jjust an apartment, not the livable part) so they heated it with the axeman. I'm converting the lower area into a garage for my vehicles and other crap. Since it's already there all I would need to do (in theory) is reconnect the chimley and move baseboards downstairs.
What are your thoughts/concerns? What kind of consumption do you think I'll be looking at during the winter months if I just keep it like 50/55? (cinder block walls, no insulation, built in '59 I think) What kind of consumption do you guys get during summer months for domestic? Is baseboard (since I have them) the best way to go or should I look at a Modine or something along those lines?
I would have put it in the house when my oil burner prophesied it's doom :yes: but got a ka-6 cheap that was already functioning from a friend and didn't have the equipment to move a 900lb beast (shaped like a bent over orangatangue with a big butt)...the boxy keystoker was much easier. :D :D


 
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Post by Rob R. » Fri. Sep. 10, 2021 7:39 am

Welcome back. Coal consumption will depend a lot on how drafty the building is and how often you open the garage doors. I'd guess 4-5 tons but you will be the first to know the real number. 8-)

If you already have the baseboards I would definitely use those, just make sure you have enough to heat the first floor. Modine style heaters have great output/recovery but they can be pretty noisy.

 
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Retro_Origin
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Post by Retro_Origin » Sat. Dec. 18, 2021 9:08 pm

Well all this talk of rock burning machinery has got me inspired, Friday the father in law came over and helped me dig the 100'+ trench to my outbuilding to run power to it to get the axe some juice.
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It needed to happen soon before the ground would freeze!

Cut all the old water lines to it since I won't be using any of the upstairs radiators or the domestic, hooked up the air compresser and pressure tested it and instant gurgling coming through the coil inlet. Makes sense because there were burst pipes in the building itself, fortunately the boiler had been drained so I HOPE it's ok. Ripped out the fittings and put in some NPT plugs and pressure tested again, held pressure for a few hours but definitely a a leak somewhere, spritzed some water/soap solution around all the fittings and found a leak around on of the coil studs, tried to tighten it a little and it made it worse. Pulled all the nuts off and attempted to take the coil out...that was harder than it looks! It's still in there actually! I'll need to work it to get it out. Gasket fell apart too easily...
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Sorry for the crappy pictures, no light in the building until I get my sub panel hooked up!

Took a look at the gearbox closer and it is an Ohio, so I guess that's good (?) or original at least :D :D
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This surely needs a clean and some TLC, one of the reasons I want to get it going asap, I think it's sat for 2+ winters in this somewhat damp building and I can't have it deteriorate on me! It came with the house! (the only break we got :lol: :lol: )

So my plan is to run this over the winter some to work out any bugs and then possibly move it into the house in the summer and do an actual repaint and restore (to some degree) to replace the Keystoker. All tentative.

Anyway, given that info, what are your suggestions for absolute replacement parts? Gasket for sure, brass nuts for the coil, should I pull the cyclone separator and reseal or just leave it alone? What other things should I check right away?

I've been reading through the annals that Stoker Don and Lightning have written on theirs to help me out. Thanks guys!

 
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StokerDon
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Post by StokerDon » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 9:31 am

Ahh, finally some tease pictures of the little beast!

What year is it? From what little information I can see in the pics it looks like it has a heat sink on the fan shaft from a 260. Also, I have never seen a square Ohio gearbox on an Axeman. Is it a 50:1 ratio?

A little warning. You pressure test a boiler with water, not air. If something fails, the compressed air will make pieces go flying. Water will just leak out.

Here is a list of "Must Do" things to get your Axeman up and running quickly.
1) Boiler must hold water pressure.
2) The ring at the bottom of the fire chamber must be in usable condition.
3) The cyclone cone at the bottom of the cyclone separator must be there and the outer edges must be sealed.
4) Mechanical parts must be in working order, motor, gearbox, fan box, fan, ashing assembly, transfer head.
5) Electrical parts must be in working order, aquastats, anthrastat, solenoid.

That is about the minimum you can get away with to get on of these running. There are other things that should be done like checking the grate rollers, cleaning the grate, cleaning the swirl chamber, ect... But it will run without doing those things.

-Don

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 11:19 am

I'd do a total tear down, clean everything and rewire it..

 
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Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
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Post by StokerDon » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 11:50 am

Lightning wrote:
Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 11:19 am
I'd do a total tear down, clean everything and rewire it..
Not if you wanted to get it up and running in a big hurry! :D

You can always do the total tear down, cleaning and painting in the Summer.

-Don

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 2:36 pm

True..

A lot of guys grind off the studs and weld a plate over the DHW coil opening on the front of the Axe. Then if you still wanna use the boiler for DHW, simply use a dedicated zone with a water to water plate exchanger.

On mine, the DHW coil passed the pressure test so I didn't mess with it. I just valved in the cold water line before the boiler so the boiler feeds the electric hot water tank hot water.


 
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Post by Retro_Origin » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 2:36 pm

StokerDon wrote:
Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 9:31 am
Ahh, finally some tease pictures of the little beast!

What year is it? From what little information I can see in the pics it looks like it has a heat sink on the fan shaft from a 260. Also, I have never seen a square Ohio gearbox on an Axeman. Is it a 50:1 ratio?

A little warning. You pressure test a boiler with water, not air. If something fails, the compressed air will make pieces go flying. Water will just leak out.

Here is a list of "Must Do" things to get your Axeman up and running quickly.
1) Boiler must hold water pressure.
2) The ring at the bottom of the fire chamber must be in usable condition.
3) The cyclone cone at the bottom of the cyclone separator must be there and the outer edges must be sealed.
4) Mechanical parts must be in working order, motor, gearbox, fan box, fan, ashing assembly, transfer head.
5) Electrical parts must be in working order, aquastats, anthrastat, solenoid.

That is about the minimum you can get away with to get on of these running. There are other things that should be done like checking the grate rollers, cleaning the grate, cleaning the swirl chamber, ect... But it will run without doing those things.

-Don
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Yes, it is a 50:1, here's a picture of the remnants of his predecessor that the serviceman must have left as a warning so this gearbox would be sure to behave. Is 50:1 the normal ratio?
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Fan and motor do spin freely, so maybe in answer to your q Don, they could have pirated a part from a 260 and replaced the whole shabang?

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Still usable :lol: chimney pipe
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Ahh...can't see it but anthrastat set to 190 :what: :what: I guess this might be something to check asap

Lightning wrote:
Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 11:19 am
I'd do a total tear down, clean everything and rewire it..

Yeah, I would like to do a rewire, as you can see I pulled stuff apart to steal the timer and take the triple aquastat inside to plug in to make sure it came on.I would LIKE to do a complete restore now, but as you can see the light being so little and damp and cold out there, I just want to get it workable for the winter and then over the summer really take this puppy apart. It will help me a lot too I think to run it and get more familiar with the concepts before doing an overhaul, it will help me make better decisions and think of things as to how the actually work not just how I think they do.

It is a 1957, although I thought for SURE it was a 59...oh well! Just one year younger than my dad, and he's still kickin'!
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A little warning. You pressure test a boiler with water, not air. If something fails, the compressed air will make pieces go flying. Water will just leak out.
Can you expound on that a little bit Don? I believe you, just not fulling understanding. Are you saying that air is not a viable means of testing because you could screw yourself if something isn't sealed up or it's not viable because it doesn't create the same scenario that water will (temp being higher etc.) or both? or neither? or...

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Post by nepacoal » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 3:03 pm

It's a potential bomb when tested with air and just a leaky water balloon when tested with water... Using air is very, very dangerous.

 
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Post by franpipeman » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 3:58 pm

yes air can hurt you with a quick rupture , and it hard to determine a small leak that would fill a bucket in a couple of hours. Fill it with water you will find it almost immediately . Water is difficult to use if t here is no heat in the building and if you dont have a convenient place to drain it . It you fill it with air a 24 hour test with no leakage on the gauge could almost assure you of no leak . Even if its only 10 psi. but 10psi use is dangerous if it comes at you at one time and some leaks dont occur until you get to a higher pressure.
Yet Many people still use it despite all the warnings

 
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Post by StokerDon » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 5:22 pm

Retro_Origin wrote:
Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 2:36 pm
Is 50:1 the normal ratio?
50:1 is normal for a 130M. A 260M uses 25:1.
Retro_Origin wrote:
Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 2:36 pm
Ahh...can't see it but anthrastat set to 190 I guess this might be something to check asap
It would be a good idea to check it. You only turn the Anthrastat with an Allen Key, Never turn the knob.
nepacoal wrote:
Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 3:03 pm
Can you expound on that a little bit Don? I believe you, just not fulling understanding. Are you saying that air is not a viable means of testing because you could screw yourself if something isn't sealed up or it's not viable because it doesn't create the same scenario that water will (temp being higher etc.) or both? or neither? or...
You don't use Air to pressure test a boiler because it is Dangerous! Air compresses, water does not. If the boiler fails with compressed air in it, pieces of metal will go flying at high speed!

If you can do the five things I listed above, you should be able to fire it. I will add one more thing. Run a brush through the passage between the Swirl Chamber and the Cyclone Separator while you have the Popes Hat off.

-Don

 
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Post by Retro_Origin » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 8:57 pm

nepacoal wrote:
Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 3:03 pm
It's a potential bomb when tested with air and just a leaky water balloon when tested with water... Using air is very, very dangerous.
I can't remember who told me to use air to pressure test the boiler, I actually think it was a plumber. :clap: :clap: Either way, it's annoying when you realize that nothing in life is simple. Nothing is straightforward, and everything always has caveats, which is why we need the specialists and why google really can't give us all the answers, and why people can disagree so strongly about things, and why I love the coal forum! Correct me all you want, I'll take it, and I'll love it! :yes:

I'll keep you guys updated! Thanks!

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 10:25 pm

I have a neighbor that has a hobby with old steam tractors.. He tests his boiler vessels up to 300psi which more than double their normal working pressure.. I was like what?? I hope you aren't near it when it explodes lol. He said no worries.. thats why we use cold water. If it cracks there is no volume expansion, it would just drizzle out. Air would be a next level kind of devastation lol

 
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Dec. 19, 2021 10:54 pm

Retro, if you indeed have a 130M you’re set with that 50:1 gearbox.
But, if a 260M you’ll need a different 25:1 gearbox.
You’ll feed not enough coal with a 50:1 on a 260M as both have same auger size.

 
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Post by lzaharis » Mon. Dec. 20, 2021 10:55 am

Hello and good morning,

As you are just getting started with your plumbing I would like to recommend three paperback books to you.

The first is "PUMPING AWAY", the second is "CLASSIC HYDRONICS" and the third is "HOW COME".

These three paper back books were written by Dan Holohan who is a retired plumber, heating and cooling trouble shooter and former sales rep for TACO and Bell and Gossett.

Dan brings many decades of plumbing and heating experience to the reader in his writing and his makes the reading easy to understand for the layperson and the journeyman plumber.

Dan goes into great detail about hydronic heating systems and how they work and how they can be made more efficient too.
He also talks about his experiences in the plumbing business with many stories in his writing making the reading fun too.

You can purchase these paperback books directly from Dan through the www.heatinghelp.com web site through the bookstore page using the secure purchasing system they use and all profits go to the author. Dan ships the paperback books
you buy directly to you with no middleman involved.

If you can find someone with a steam cleaner to clear away all the dirt and green rust in the steel on the outer shell and the inner steam jacket you will have a better time in getting it ready for next year.

It may be much wiser to have it sand blasted or preferably find an auto repair shop that uses dry ice sandblasting to clean it with much less damage to the steel shell and the weldments.

Rick 386 may be the best contact to talk to about this as he has an AA that is heating a two family farmhouse with hot water heat and he owns an autobody repair shop.

You have a lot of corrosion damage/green rust due to moisture exposure that needs to be tended to and at least painted with a high temperature corrosion resistant paint after the steel has been cleaned.

Dry ice sand blasting is less damaging to steel than dry sand or the black beauty metal slag used for sand blasting. Renting a dry ice sand blaster is an option too.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_rust

The boiler needs to be elevated off the slab to reduce any more corrosion from occurring.
You could do what Don did with his AA by using half blocks and mortaring them all together to create a solid block floor.


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