Baseboard, Circulator and Piping Questions

Currently, I have a single circulator that runs continuously. It loops thru the water to air exchanger. Other than that, there are 3 zone valves that turn on/off by thermostat that heat baseboards. Ultimately I want to do away with the water to air exchanger and use baseboards exclusively so there won't be a place for water to loop thru an exchanger anymore. How would I plumb this so that the circulator isn't dead heading against closed zone valves if nothing is calling for heat?

You can tackle this a few different ways.

1. Keep circ. Running and add a differential pressure bypass valve.

2. Install a relay so the circulator only runs when a zone valve is open.

3. Install an ECM circulator that will vary output based on how many zone valves are open.

Rob R. wrote: ↑

Sun. Dec. 27, 2020 4:20 pm

3. Install an ECM circulator that will vary output based on how many zone valves are open.

I believe I'm using one but I didn't know if/that it will shut off if it's dead heading against closed valves.

What model circulator are you using?

I recently scored 29 feet of slant fin 30 for $200... Brand new, only sat in shed for a couple years.

This lil fella right here..

That is a great circulator. I would run it in proportional pressure mode rather than the fixed speed you are currently using. The manual suggests starting with medium (9:00 position) and adjust if necessary.

Or use a zone controller like a Taco ZVC403 to control the valves and run the pump once the valves open...

Not sure what your plumbing layout is exactly, but it's pretty easy to convert a single pipe system to a secondary loop/zone system by placing two Tees- one before and one after the new "zone" and connecting them together.

If you intend to still have that zone plumbed, the easiest way is to add a circulator into that zone. It can be done with monoflo tees (always on the RETURN side of the zone, they like to PULL water through the zone, though a tough zone can have two monoflo tees).

I recommend you also add a valve at each end of the zone so it can be turned off or serviced without draining the system in the future.

When we moved back to this house, we removed the monoflow tees and cut the line connecting them, as we were converting the entire loop to a single zone to compliment our newly created primary loop that only circulates past each zone and back to the boiler.

Your setup would be sort of using your single pipe system as the primary loop and breaking off a zone for your water to air exchanger.

If that isn't clear, I can draw something up?

I prefer to use circulators and valves with a primary and then secondary loops for each zone. A Taco zone controller makes it extremely simple. It handles all the zone stuff- circulator or valve power, thermostats, etc. This is typically more expensive than a single loop, mostly due to the zone controller and the circulators, if doing the entire system.

The granularity and efficiency of multizone systems is great. You likely have similar results with your zone valves, but have to worry more about flow rates and such.

If *I* were doing it, I'd add the tees, connect them together, add a shutoff on the return side of the zone, add flanges with integral shutoff valves on the supply side of the new zone, add a pump with a standalone relay connected to main pump and triggered by the zone's Tstat.

All done and should be around $150-200 depending on prices.

Rob R. wrote: ↑

Sun. Dec. 27, 2020 4:50 pm

That is a great circulator. I would run it in proportional pressure mode rather than the fixed speed you are currently using. The manual suggests starting with medium (9:00 position) and adjust if necessary.

Hell yeah man! I'm proud of that little pumper lol. Draws a whopping 85 watts wide open and can move water all the way to my outbuilding, thru radiators out there and back with a 20* delta T.. Meanwhile it's looping thru the water to air exchanger in the house. I'm very impressed with it. Larry advised me to get that one cuz I had no clue what I was looking at lol

nepacoal wrote: ↑

Sun. Dec. 27, 2020 5:04 pm

Or use a zone controller like a Taco ZVC403 to control the valves and run the pump once the valves open...

I don't know how I would do that since I have two zone valves at the out building. They need to be out there since I heat 2 zones from one line. (At the outbuilding)

CoalisCoolxWarm wrote: ↑

Sun. Dec. 27, 2020 5:09 pm

that isn't clear, I can draw something up?

While I really appreciate your effort with your reply, it's quite above my understanding at the moment. I'm kinda new to the whole water heating setup. I'll read it over a few times and try to connect the dots.

Rob, do you think it would be ok for this circulator to push against closed valves if I run it on the proper setting? Is that what it's designed for?

Yes. It needs to be at the right setting, but there should be no issue with leaving it powered with the zone valves closed.

Rob R. wrote: ↑

Sun. Dec. 27, 2020 8:19 pm

Yes. It needs to be at the right setting, but there should be no issue with leaving it powered with the zone valves closed.

Great! Thank you!
That was easy

Lightning wrote: ↑

Sun. Dec. 27, 2020 4:11 pm

Currently, I have a single circulator that runs continuously. It loops thru the water to air exchanger. Other than that, there are 3 zone valves that turn on/off by thermostat that heat baseboards. Ultimately I want to do away with the water to air exchanger and use baseboards exclusively so there won't be a place for water to loop thru an exchanger anymore. How would I plumb this so that the circulator isn't dead heading against closed zone valves if nothing is calling for heat?

When we first moved into our house,10 years prior to installing the AHS S-130 Coal Gun, the house was set up with a circulator that deadheaded when no zones were open, and worse than that it deadheaded 24/7 throughout the non heating season because it was hard wired to run continuously. It was an old B&G packing pump which leaked at the packing gland and had hit the tightening stops, so it needed new packing. Rather than mess with it I changed it out early on for a B&G NRF-22, and not knowing any better I left it wired just as it was. The B&G NRF-22 circulator operated non-stop for most of the 10 years that we lived here before I installed the Coal Gun and changed all the piping, wiring, etc... And it wasn't an ECM as they didn't exist. And it deadheaded year round sans for when a zone valve would open during the heating season. And when I yanked it out 10 years later I'd wager it still had another 10 years of life in it.

lsayre wrote: ↑

Mon. Dec. 28, 2020 4:30 am

when I yanked it out 10 years later I'd wager it still had another 10 years of life in it.

So dead heading against closed valves is a non issue then?

Lightning wrote: ↑

Mon. Dec. 28, 2020 9:18 am

So dead heading against closed valves is a non issue then?

It is a non issue for low-head or ECM circulators that do not generate much heat when dead-headed. I don't think it does them any good, but it does not cause a quick failure like you would see with something like a Taco 011.