Thinking of running fine tube for next season.

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Frank F
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Post by Frank F » Fri. Apr. 24, 2020 8:53 pm

I have a few questions for you experts.

I current have my LL220 boiler running into a heat exchanger installed in my propane furnace. So moving the heat with forced air. After alot of help from members on this site and alot of tweaking my boiler did well. We stayed warm but I'm hoping to make it better.

Would installing fin tube throughout my house increase efficiency and decrease coal use?

If so, is their an easy calculation to determine how many ft of fun tube per room?

I currently run the boiler low temp 150 high temp 165. Are those temps sufficient for fun tube?

Thanks in advance.
Frank.

 
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2001Sierra
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Post by 2001Sierra » Fri. Apr. 24, 2020 10:25 pm

Your temps are fine, just longer cycle times with a call for heat. Kind of like radaint. That with what I run my Buderus oil boiler when I use it to heat the house.

 
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Post by Pacowy » Fri. Apr. 24, 2020 10:44 pm

I'm not a hydronics expert, but don't plenum heat exchangers - and other hot water radiation - throw off a whole lot more heat if run at higher temps? Like somewhere around 50% more btu/hr at 185 deg than at 150? If you're not getting enough heat, it seems like it might be much more cost-effective to just bump up the temps. Maybe if the problem is that specific areas aren't getting enough heat, it would be worth considering the cost and complexity of adding radiation, zones, etc.

Mike

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sat. Apr. 25, 2020 4:39 am

Frank F wrote:
Fri. Apr. 24, 2020 8:53 pm
Would installing fin tube throughout my house increase efficiency and decrease coal use?
My short answer would be no.. But, if your forced air distribution system is losing heat before it gets to the living area then maybe.. Also, you might be able to run your thermostat a couple degrees lower with the same comfort if your forced air system causes heavy air currents.. I think hot water baseboard could be more comcomfortable, but might not really save a lot of coal. I'm sure there are other variables to consider.


 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sat. Apr. 25, 2020 8:10 am

Frank, the only way you would save coal by installing fin-tube radiators is if some areas of your house are currently overheated, and you were able to balance the temperature better.

 
Pat63
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Post by Pat63 » Mon. Apr. 27, 2020 9:10 am

Typically fin tube emitters run best with about 180F supply water. If you go with fin tube and want to keep your supply water at a lower temp, they now have high efficiency low-temp emitters. Here's a link about it....
https://www.pmengineer.com/articles/91631-a-sampl ... t-emitters

Pat

 
Frank F
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Post by Frank F » Mon. May. 11, 2020 6:26 pm

Thank you all for the advice! I think based of your guidance I'm going to hold off on spending the money to convert my house to radiant heat.

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Mon. May. 11, 2020 8:14 pm

Pat63 wrote:
Mon. Apr. 27, 2020 9:10 am
Typically fin tube emitters run best with about 180F supply water. If you go with fin tube and want to keep your supply water at a lower temp, they now have high efficiency low-temp emitters. Here's a link about it....
https://www.pmengineer.com/articles/91631-a-sampl ... t-emitters

Pat
Mine have been working just fine with 140-150 degree water down to about 25-30 degrees outside. And mine are conventional HWB's. The only reason why I would consider the high output types is to be in condensing mode nearly all the time.


 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Wed. May. 13, 2020 8:44 am

Pacowy wrote:
Fri. Apr. 24, 2020 10:44 pm
I'm not a hydronics expert, but don't plenum heat exchangers - and other hot water radiation - throw off a whole lot more heat if run at higher temps? Like somewhere around 50% more btu/hr at 185 deg than at 150? If you're not getting enough heat, it seems like it might be much more cost-effective to just bump up the temps. Maybe if the problem is that specific areas aren't getting enough heat, it would be worth considering the cost and complexity of adding radiation, zones, etc.

Mike

50% less heat simply means 50% more heating time. Or in other words, more even heat. Outdoor reset (I.E., intentional lower heat over longer periods of time) has been shown to save money and fuel.

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Wed. May. 13, 2020 11:50 am

Larry I think your outdoor reset comment makes my point, not yours. As I understand it the purpose of outdoor reset is to modulate system output corresponding to the different rates of heat loss that occur at different outdoor temperature levels. Because the lower output occurs when the heat loss is lower, it doesn't necessarily change the "% heating time", to use your term. If it were inherently more efficient to just run the system longer at lower output, shouldn't everyone set their system at a low enough temperature that it just runs all the time? Here, the OP was doing what you advocate, and he was dissatisfied enough with the amount of heat he was getting for the amount of coal burned that he was thinking about spending a lot of $ to try to improve it. My $0.02 was to try letting the equipment run the way it was designed. I agree that incorporating outdoor reset might be a good way to save some fuel, but not because it changes the overall % of time that the system is running.

Mike

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. May. 13, 2020 12:42 pm

I did not get the impression that the OP was dissatisfied with the comfort of the house, just in the amount of coal being burned (I gathered that from his other thread). I do not have experience with hydro-air systems, but I would expect longer cycle times and less room temperature variation to be viewed as a good thing - it has been in my house with our radiators.

He is already running the system at a lower than average temperature, so about the only thing left to reduce the heat lost to the outbuilding and earth is to improve the insulation, or change the system to only circulate water underground when the house needs heat.

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