EFM Round Door Boiler LEAKING

 
JoeStoker
New Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 9:45 am

Post by JoeStoker » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 10:35 am

Hello all and Happy New Year!

New to forum but EFM boiler/stoker user for 14 years. Just was hoping to get a better understanding as to how my efm 520 could be leaking from the inner boiler wall. As you face the front of the boiler and are looking at it's round door the leak is located to the left of the round door but on the inside of the boiler wall. If you were laying on your back, with your head inside the stoker base, looking up at the round door, the leak is just to the right of the round door, in the actual wall of the boiler. The picture is showing this view looking up from inside the base of the boiler.
Boiler Leak - Copy.jpg
.JPG | 590.8KB | Boiler Leak - Copy.jpg
Since water leaks don't usually run up hill, I'd assume the boiler wall itself is actually leaking. Is this repairable?...or is it now trash? I am also looking for a better understanding as to how this occurs....how thick is the boiler wall...did it just finally rust through? Thanks in advance.


 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17979
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 11:02 am

Hi Joe - it is possible the boiler rusted through, but I think more likely it has a small crack - probably at a weld. As long as the boiler is not rotted out the leak can probably be repaired.

With that said, it is a bad time of year to get into this type of repair. If you don't have any other form of heat I would try a boiler stop leak product and see if you can make it until spring.

 
Dave 1234
Member
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue. Nov. 13, 2012 9:05 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1948 International boiler, EFM S-20 stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buck,

Post by Dave 1234 » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 11:40 am

Rob R. wrote:
Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 11:02 am
Hi Joe - it is possible the boiler rusted through, but I think more likely it has a small crack - probably at a weld. As long as the boiler is not rotted out the leak can probably be repaired.

With that said, it is a bad time of year to get into this type of repair. If you don't have any other form of heat I would try a boiler stop leak product and see if you can make it until spring.

A +1 to ^ , Is your system steam or water ? If its water, a low PSI pressure on the system will help after the stop-leak is added.

Whats it showing for PSI now ?

 
JoeStoker
New Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 9:45 am

Post by JoeStoker » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 11:55 am

I have a separate Oil burner. It's been running for a few weeks now. Now that the stoker's been off and I cleaned it out, I'm going to try to determine whether the leak is at the boiler wall or at the round door port weld. The water stain, when I took the picture, was above (and to the right) of the round port but I really couldn't poke around since the boiler was active. Ash on the wall could have wicked water higher than the actual leak point...I guess? Problem is, while the boiler was running it was under pressure, the metal was all at 190°± relaxed/expanded and leaking, now I'm assuming, it will be dry, cold and more difficult to determine where the actual leak is.

The boiler is a water, not steam system.

The boiler is isolated (has been for a few weeks) from the heating system (valves) and it is currently drained. I was thinking of connecting the boiler drain to a female/female hose, opening the blow off valve and filling it. I could then close the blow off valve and let it pressurise to the 60 psi domestic pressure to see if I can get it to leak....
Last edited by JoeStoker on Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
User avatar
StokerDon
Site Moderator
Posts: 7486
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
Location: PA, Southern York County!
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 11:56 am

If you use a stop leak like the one Hercules makes, they instruct you to run at high pressure and above 160 degrees until the leak seals.

I have had good luck with the Hercules Boiler Liquid sealer.

-Don

 
Pacowy
Member
Posts: 3555
Joined: Tue. Sep. 04, 2007 10:14 pm
Location: Dalton, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Post by Pacowy » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 12:07 pm

StokerDon wrote:
Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 11:56 am
If you use a stop leak like the one Hercules makes, they instruct you to run at high pressure and above 160 degrees until the leak seals.

I have had good luck with the Hercules Boiler Liquid sealer.
x2.

Mike

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17979
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 12:36 pm

JoeStoker wrote:
Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 11:55 am
I have a separate Oil burner. It's been running for a few weeks now. Now that the stoker's been off and I cleaned it out, I'm going to try to determine whether the leak is at the boiler wall or at the round door port weld. The water stain, when I took the picture, was above (and to the right) of the round port but I really couldn't poke around since the boiler was active. Ash on the wall could have wicked water higher than the actual leak point...I guess? Problem is, while the boiler was running it was under pressure, the metal was all at 190°± relaxed/expanded and leaking, now I'm assuming, it will be dry, cold and more difficult to determine where the actual leak is.

The boiler is a water, not steam system.

The boiler is isolated (has been for a few weeks) from the heating system (valves) and it is currently drained. I was thinking of connecting the boiler drain to a female/female hose, opening the blow off valve and filling it. I could then close the blow off valve and let it pressurise to the 60 psi domestic pressure to see if I can get it to leak....thinking the metal will be cold and may not show the leak...? Any suggestions?
Generally boilers leak more when cold. I would not put 60 psi in it. Stay under 30 psi.


 
JoeStoker
New Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 9:45 am

Post by JoeStoker » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 1:50 pm

...the 60 psi would have been cold psi...
Last edited by JoeStoker on Thu. Jan. 02, 2020 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17979
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 1:53 pm

I would add the boiler seal, fill the boiler, and put it back into service heating the house.

Set the aquastat at 180/200 and leave it like that for a few days. The pressure and heat is needed to make the Hercules product work as intended.

 
Pacowy
Member
Posts: 3555
Joined: Tue. Sep. 04, 2007 10:14 pm
Location: Dalton, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Post by Pacowy » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 4:05 pm

It has been a while since I used the Hercules but IIRC the directions called for the boiler to be drained to or slightly below the level of the leak, add the Hercules, start firing the boiler, then slowly fill the boiler.

Mike

 
JoeStoker
New Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 9:45 am

Post by JoeStoker » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 5:57 pm

does anyone know how much Of the Hercules to use? a quart, 2 quarts?

 
User avatar
Scottscoaled
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: Tue. Jan. 08, 2008 9:51 pm
Location: Malta N.Y.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup

Post by Scottscoaled » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 7:13 pm

Joe, you are putting a bandage on something that could potentially cost you a bunch of money. What you really need to do is find a competent welder. That really isn't that big of a problem for a skilled guy. Where are you located?

 
JoeStoker
New Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 9:45 am

Post by JoeStoker » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 7:28 pm

Does anyone know the square foot boiler rating for an EFM 520. As per the Hercules Boiler Liquid directions, I need to use 1 quart for each each 850 square feet of boiler rating in my attempt to seal a leak.

Is it okay to fire the stoker with the boiler only 1/2 to 3/4 full? Would that even possibly create a different problem?...Could the top of the boiler crack if it is not filled with water?
Last edited by JoeStoker on Thu. Jan. 02, 2020 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
User avatar
StokerDon
Site Moderator
Posts: 7486
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
Location: PA, Southern York County!
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 7:35 pm

JoeStoker wrote:
Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 5:57 pm
does anyone know how much Of the Hercules to use? a quart, 2 quarts?
Unfortunately, the plan that you have outlined above sounds like a bad idea to me. Firing a stoker boiler partly full of water, with no heat load on it will not end well, in my opinion.

Here are the instructions.
IMG_5351.JPG
.JPG | 327.5KB | IMG_5351.JPG
IMG_5352.JPG
.JPG | 287.8KB | IMG_5352.JPG
IMG_5353.JPG
.JPG | 460.7KB | IMG_5353.JPG
As Scott mentioned above, if you currently have it shut down, you could just have a welder fix it.

-Don

 
JoeStoker
New Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 9:45 am

Post by JoeStoker » Wed. Jan. 01, 2020 7:54 pm

Scottscoaled, southeast PA

Don, look at the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th lines of the third picture you sent me...all having you heating the boiler partially filled...what do you think about that?

Don't see this response as an argument just debate...FYI, I'm a more than fairly skilled remodeling contractor/mechanic/welder (mig, yes but for over 27 years) Just don't want you to think i'm some homeowner, without a clue...
Last edited by JoeStoker on Thu. Jan. 02, 2020 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.


Post Reply

Return to “Stoker Coal Boilers Using Anthracite (Hydronic & Steam)”