Radiators

Thanks to stoker dons old post on radiators i now have a collection as well, got a batch last week and today. Pulled from houses in working condition. So i think the 11 shld be enough for the house.
Its weird that people are pulling these and ive been looking to get them back in my old house!! Todays group One of the ones today was a real monster. I still gotta hookup the s130 coal gun and seems summer is quickly fading.

Ive read just about every post i could find and any other info online. I have all the recomended hydronics books.
One question is 1/2 or 3/4 pex to supply these?
How do you figure out how big an expansion tank youll need?

1/2 is typically plenty. 1.5 gallons per minute can deliver a lot of btus. Once you figure out the size of each radiator we can review the pipe sizing closer.

Make sure that you test them before you lug them inside. You will find leaks that never showed before taking out.

Sadly folks are being told a lot of garbage about why they do not want steam or hot radiators or how it the radiators will interfere with a whole house air conditioning system; garbage talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Buying radiator sockets, gaskets and a 36"-48" long 3/4" breaker bar and torque wrench and gaskets are on your must have list if you need to do some repair work on your own.

lzaharis wrote: ↑

Thu. Aug. 29, 2019 9:33 am

Buying radiator sockets, gaskets and a 36"-48" long 3/4" breaker bar and torque wrench and gaskets are on your must have list if you need to do some repair work on your own.

Or, buy many radiators and instead scrap the rejects...buy more radiators with money saved on not buying any tools and searching the planet for replacement pieces, then there's hours spent wrestling rusted cast iron and the lost time being laid-up with chiropractor bills. Hardly a DIY job!

lamina1982 wrote: ↑

Tue. Aug. 27, 2019 8:02 pm

So i think the 11 shld be enough for the house.
Its weird that people are pulling these and ive been looking to get them back in my old house!!

WOW! That's a nice haul!

What are you heating with these sweeties? You have a lot of potential BTU output sitting there.

lamina1982 wrote: ↑

Tue. Aug. 27, 2019 8:02 pm

One question is 1/2 or 3/4 pex to supply these?

If you run manifolds instead of loops, like I did, you can use 1/2" supply and return to each radiator, that should be plenty. An added bonus is that the 1/2" PEX is WAY easier to work with than the larger sizes.

lamina1982 wrote: ↑

Tue. Aug. 27, 2019 8:02 pm

How do you figure out how big an expansion tank youll need?

That calculation should be in the books. I don't know what it is off hand. Basically, you need to calculate how much water is in your complete system, rads, boiler and piping. Then calculate how much that volume of water will expand from about 80 degrees to 210 degrees. Then you install an expansion tank with that much acceptance volume.

A word of advice on expansion tanks, go BIG. Since the fire is much bigger in the AA/AHS boilers than typical stoker boilers, they can overshoot the temperature set point, sometimes a lot. Extra expansion volume can absorb these temperature overshoots without popping the PRV.

-Don

I planned on using manifolds for the radiator supply and return.
Its an ahs coalgun 130.
House is 2800 sq ft, old farm house but all new windows.

Hello Lamina,

A pair of 15 gallon steel compression tanks or one 30 gallon steel compression tank will provide you with plenty of expansion.

In using a 15 gallon steel compression tank or pair of 15 gallon tanks you will have 5 or 10 gallons of air in the steel compression tank(s) to absorb the excess pressure through the single airtrol valve or the dual airtrol valves that will be tee'd together and you will be creating much less pressure in your point of no pressure change for your heating system.

By installing the circulator on the top of the boiler you will be pumping away from the boiler and in the process pulling any air bubbles out through the top of the steam chest and then removing them with an airtrol valve in the bottom of a steel compression tank or using an automatic air vent with an air scoop.

By installing the circulator on top of the boiler you will avoid having to drain the boiler down to change a circulator if it goes bad as you will have the room to install a pair of isolation flanges with ball valves.
If you use the isolation flanges with gauge ports you can have a vacuum gauge on the suction side and a pressure gauge on the pressure/outside of the circulator to monitor the condition of the circulator. Having the
vacuum gauge on the suction side helps you as a bad circulator will cavitate and create large vacuum pressure gradients which immediately tells you the circulator has a problem or failure as it will be much less efficient in push water.

Using a steel compression tank or pair of tanks also increases the amount of water in the system above the circulator and the circulator is always flooded with water and the circulator requires less effort to move the water.

lzaharis wrote: ↑

Sat. Aug. 31, 2019 1:01 pm

A pair of 15 gallon steel compression tanks or one 30 gallon steel compression tank will provide you with plenty of expansion.

I don't have any experience with compression tanks so, do you have any math to back up your claim that a 30 gallons would cover this without knowing what the total system volume is?

-Don

In my case I purchased a 15 gallon steel compression tank as it was more than half the water volume of the coal stoker I bought and as my system total was 54 gallons basing my purchase on what I read in Dan Holohans book CLASSIC HYDRONICS.

it has been more than adequate with my 225 foot single loop system with it operating at 4-12 PSIG at summer operating temperatures. I don't have to worry about the rubber bladder failing either.



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I thought 30 gallons would be enough but with 2,800 square feet and higher water temperatures he would need a single 60 gallon tank giving him a 20 gallon air cushion or a series of smaller multiple tanks and airtrol valves to have 40 gallons of water and 20 gallons of air cushion capacity.

Dan Holohan has written that having a larger air/water volume cushion with a steel compression tank does not hinder how well a system will operate with circulators as the more water in the system the better when it comes to steel compression tanks.

A gravity hot water system is even simpler as the open to air expansion tank inn the attic allows the hot water to rise and then fall back to the radiators and then into the basement to the boiler with no circulators for a home up to three stories tall. From what I have read a gravity fall hot water system can and has been used for a taller building where the hot water is pumped to the attic and then drops through the return pipe to the radiators below and then into the return pipe falling back in to the basement and then the boiler sump.


We do not know how many radiators he is going to use and we still need to know whether its a two story or three story home or whether it has an attic as that would affect the calculation for a bladder expansion tank size determination.

My installation was simple only because it was all on one level and I do not require a lot of pressure to move the water in my system.

That's a beautiful collection there!
I collected some very nice radiators myself, then quite painstakingly restored them. Now they are all sitting in the correct places around the house and not connected to anything, except the kitchen zone which I somehow managed to connect.
That 3 pass in the 3rd and 4th photo is huge!!!

It sure is, probably be in the basement as my dump zone as not sure anywhere in the house could handle it.
Funny thing i was having trouble finding any and then got these 2 loads a week apart.
Im hoping to get a few in at least, but also putting in a new boiler so we shall what tike allows!

I have one like that out in the barn, and another one I have not picked up yet. Gonna keep them in case I ever get around to installing a stoker out there. You'll be surprised at the amount of heat radiators put out.