leak in my Van wert BA 1800

 
Rufcar
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Post by Rufcar » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 9:53 am

after 40+ years I am at a cross roads. my BA 1800 VW is 540,000 btu's it has a 2 piece steel simplex boiler a P-90 2250 sf of steam. breaking down the unit to weld a pin hole in a 40 yr old boiler does not seem to make sense. Replacing it is rather expensive. A Key boiler is appox 15K plus installation and an Alternative Heating systems "Coal Gun" is closer to 19K due to mods. Both have high mounted hoppers and Id have to make a system with a different auger as my 16ft auger wont be long enough and might be too tall.I hate to admit it but Im actually looking at a Burnham oil fired boiler due to convenience, but new steam boilers can legally no longer have a hot water coil in them! That means ether a oil or electric fired hot water system which I hate. I am open to any suggestions? It might be cheaper having someone make a custom boiler to replace mine but do to liability these days I cant see how? Suggestions please?


 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 10:02 am

There had been a low mileage AHS 500 Coal Guns showing up for sale last season in the Craig'sList ads, might have been another of the same a few years back...so they are out there...
Last edited by McGiever on Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 10:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 10:03 am

Have you tried Hercules boiler liquid?

Mike

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 10:15 am

For low angle auger you might look at Axeman Anderson...if need be, 2 of the AA-260 may easily pull your load.

More plentiful and common sized Good 'used' & 'rebuilt' AA-260s should come in at around $5000.00 each...

Just be sure to get a ex-hot water...not any ex-steamer...ex-hot water most all run with near zero oxygen being added in any make-up water...ex-steam is a bigger 'crapshoot'...coil leak signs are one big clue to water added oxygen...iron plus oxygen equals RUST.
Last edited by McGiever on Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 10:33 am

Drill and tap the hole and put a pipe plug in it loaded with sealer. A hell of a lot cheaper than replacing a boiler.

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 10:48 am

Really? 40 year old boiler which has seen mega coal 24/7 and to just use liquid Stop Leak or a Band Aid plug on it!
Is the belief that for 40 years this one tiny pin hole chose this one tiny spot to burrow through this 1/4 inch thick boiler plate...wow!

 
Rufcar
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Post by Rufcar » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 12:04 pm

The leak is at the bottom left side of a 2 piece boiler. You can crawl inside easily If you disassemble the stoker and pull it out even then you have about 24-28" of height to do everything. This boiler has been off a total of 4 times in 40 years. The longest was 2 years ago when we removed the coil to clean it out, is was off about 6 hours. Water has never been cold in 40 years. The biggest problem is if I do a repair in summer what happens if it blows out in winter? In 118 years this house has never been with out heat. I can see a lot of answers on a smaller, less then 200,000 btu units as much is easily available. It really is a tough call. plus at 70 it is becoming more and more work. Its a tough decision.


 
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 12:34 pm

Are you sure the water is leaking from the pressure vessel and not running down from a leaky fitting?

 
Rufcar
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Post by Rufcar » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 2:16 pm

Ill re check but there are no fittings or piping within 3ft of that leak. Thanks.

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 3:19 pm

McGiever wrote:
Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 10:48 am
Really? 40 year old boiler which has seen mega coal 24/7 and to just use liquid Stop Leak or a Band Aid plug on it!
Is the belief that for 40 years this one tiny pin hole chose this one tiny spot to burrow through this 1/4 inch thick boiler plate...wow!
Really McG? One tiny pinhole may be the only place where there was enough of an imperfection in the steel to generate a leak. It's the problem that the OP stated, and my suggestion to try the boiler liquid was based on the advice I received from a highly experienced boiler guy in MA under similar circumstances. That stuff is not like throwing oatmeal in the boiler and praying; it is an Oatey product that is used by pros and forms a durable silicon-based repair.

I also note that in your rush to promote AA and AHS products you seem to be glossing over the "fleet sizes" that would be entailed by your suggestions. Even if you make the favorable assumption that the 540k is a gross output rating, you can't get that out of either an AHS 500 (500k input rating) or a pair of AA-260's. And if the 540k is a net output rating, with the 1.33 pickup factor for steam you are talking about a gross output requirement of about 718k. Either way, you'd be looking at 3 AA-260's or a pair of AHS 500's to replicate the current capacity. I've run several steam systems and believe it's pretty rare to find a steam system that deliberately relies on simultaneous operation of multiple small boilers as you propose.

Mike

 
Dave 1234
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Post by Dave 1234 » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 5:38 pm

Rufcar,

Looking at this from a couple hundred miles makes me wonder.

If your top-end consumption, on a very cold day is in the 300 ish Lb. range, maybe you could replace your unit with a large used EFM boiler.

They are affordable , and will give you the same coal supply height that you have now.

I like your thinking about making this a ''one and done'' fix over the off season.

JMHO , Dave

 
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McGiever
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Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 10:16 pm

Pacowy wrote:
Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 3:19 pm
Really McG? One tiny pinhole may be the only place where there was enough of an imperfection in the steel to generate a leak. It's the problem that the OP stated, and my suggestion to try the boiler liquid was based on the advice I received from a highly experienced boiler guy in MA under similar circumstances. That stuff is not like throwing oatmeal in the boiler and praying; it is an Oatey product that is used by pros and forms a durable silicon-based repair.

I also note that in your rush to promote AA and AHS products you seem to be glossing over the "fleet sizes" that would be entailed by your suggestions. Even if you make the favorable assumption that the 540k is a gross output rating, you can't get that out of either an AHS 500 (500k input rating) or a pair of AA-260's. And if the 540k is a net output rating, with the 1.33 pickup factor for steam you are talking about a gross output requirement of about 718k. Either way, you'd be looking at 3 AA-260's or a pair of AHS 500's to replicate the current capacity. I've run several steam systems and believe it's pretty rare to find a steam system that deliberately relies on simultaneous operation of multiple small boilers as you propose.

Mike
I was never doubting the ability of the product to do as advertised for the stated pinhole, I question the choice for a fix needed for a unknown internal condition that is unkown to all...on this 40+ y.o. boiler.
I'm not as 'comfy' about the steel defect theroy as you seem...where is your pinhole boiler at today?

And, oh, no 'rush' to promote any particular boiler mfg'r, OP stated a elevation issue and/or auger length difference between his VW and alternative hopper styles...just shining a light on similar models that share his present auger setup is all...just helping a fellow out...he was asking for thoughts...I could step aside if my ideas are so foolish, just thought he could separate the 'wheat from the chaff... ;)

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Aug. 01, 2019 6:54 am

Rufcar wrote:
Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 2:16 pm
Ill re check but there are no fittings or piping within 3ft of that leak. Thanks.
I understand...but sometimes boiler leaks are like roof leaks. Let us know how you make out.

How much coal do you burn per season?

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Thu. Aug. 01, 2019 7:06 am

There are a lot of ways to deal with this short of scraping it. I wouldn't be to worried about it because it's 40 years old. Hell, we've got members here with boilers twice that age still going strong.

https://www.home-barista.com/repairs/repairing-bo ... 49238.html

 
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Post by Pacowy » Thu. Aug. 01, 2019 8:06 am

Dave 1234 wrote:
Wed. Jul. 31, 2019 5:38 pm
Rufcar,

Looking at this from a couple hundred miles makes me wonder.

If your top-end consumption, on a very cold day is in the 300 ish Lb. range, maybe you could replace your unit with a large used EFM boiler.

They are affordable , and will give you the same coal supply height that you have now.
This is a strategy that has worked well for a lot of people in a lot of situations. Here, however, even if the OP determines that the current boiler is no good, the largest EFM I know of (a 1300) maxes out at about 414k btu/hr gross output (subject to check; I'm not looking at a spec sheet). It wouldn't replicate the current capacity.

Mike


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