Motor wont run
- Rob R.
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It is tough to tell exactly how things are piped with that nasty fiberglass insulation on everything, but it appears there is no bypass piping installed.
Do any of your pumps/loops run continuously?
Do any of your pumps/loops run continuously?
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Yes I spoke with previous owner, I tried his settings, didnt work for me, and he said it was struggle at times to keep going in summer, and always had ideas on how to improve but never really moved forward. He said to use more hot water Haha! He is a great guy, and always very helpful. I just think maybe my usage is a bit different
Last edited by Machinist82 on Tue. Jun. 18, 2019 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I dont think anything runs constantly
- nepacoal
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With no bypass loop, I'm guessing that the failure mode is almost always "shutdown due to high temp" unless you have terrible draft... But you said draft was pretty good.
If high temp is the issue, increasing the difference between high and low will help but it might be worthwhile to add a bypass pipe... Or, you mentioned one of your zones is a pool... You could add a dump zone aquastat (strap on model in supply pipe if no well available) and have it dump to the pool zone. Then you could raise your high limit to say 210 as the final safety to shutdown but set your dump aquastat to 205. That way it would never go out on high temp. You would still want to adjust your timer to just stay lit with only occasional dumps, but it would be pretty easy to implement. Just thinking out loud...
FYI... My Keystoker is not wired through ZR and always relies on the dump zone for high temps... Timer must run on a flat bed stokers or the fire would go out in 15 or 20 minutes. Luckily, with the bypass loop installed, it just idles between 200 and 210. I have my dump zone set for 220 or so.
If high temp is the issue, increasing the difference between high and low will help but it might be worthwhile to add a bypass pipe... Or, you mentioned one of your zones is a pool... You could add a dump zone aquastat (strap on model in supply pipe if no well available) and have it dump to the pool zone. Then you could raise your high limit to say 210 as the final safety to shutdown but set your dump aquastat to 205. That way it would never go out on high temp. You would still want to adjust your timer to just stay lit with only occasional dumps, but it would be pretty easy to implement. Just thinking out loud...
FYI... My Keystoker is not wired through ZR and always relies on the dump zone for high temps... Timer must run on a flat bed stokers or the fire would go out in 15 or 20 minutes. Luckily, with the bypass loop installed, it just idles between 200 and 210. I have my dump zone set for 220 or so.
Last edited by nepacoal on Tue. Jun. 18, 2019 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The way the previous owners plumber has the steel compression tank set up with an air scoop and an automatic air bleeder the system has no point of pressure change and all the problems that go with it.
The other thing is the air scoop is improperly plumbed into the steel compression tank as it is plumbed from the bottom of the air scoop and cannot allow the air bubbles to rise due to the lack of slope to the steel compression tank THAT should be coming from the top of the air scoop.
BUT the mistake of having an automatic air bleeder in the air scoop eliminates any possibility of having a point of no pressure change so the system is not working correctly UNLESS THE CAP is completely tightened down to prevent any air from escaping from the steel compression tank.
We need to see an image of the opposite end of the steel compression tank to see it if has a separate globe valve with an air bleeder tube in the steel compression tank.
If there is a globe valve with a bleeder tube in it at the opposite tapping the system can be drained of excess water and the steel compression tank can reach its point of 1/3 air 2/3 water to obtain the proper point of no pressure change AS LONG AS the automatic air vent is closed.
Eventually or as soon as possible it needs to be changed to work correctly as the air scoop is too high in the plumbing run of piping and the steel compression tank is elevated slightly to allow the pipe from the air scoop to slope upward to allow the air bubbles to migrate into the water in to the steel compression tank eventually once the air to water balance is corrected.
The other thing is the air scoop is improperly plumbed into the steel compression tank as it is plumbed from the bottom of the air scoop and cannot allow the air bubbles to rise due to the lack of slope to the steel compression tank THAT should be coming from the top of the air scoop.
BUT the mistake of having an automatic air bleeder in the air scoop eliminates any possibility of having a point of no pressure change so the system is not working correctly UNLESS THE CAP is completely tightened down to prevent any air from escaping from the steel compression tank.
We need to see an image of the opposite end of the steel compression tank to see it if has a separate globe valve with an air bleeder tube in the steel compression tank.
If there is a globe valve with a bleeder tube in it at the opposite tapping the system can be drained of excess water and the steel compression tank can reach its point of 1/3 air 2/3 water to obtain the proper point of no pressure change AS LONG AS the automatic air vent is closed.
Eventually or as soon as possible it needs to be changed to work correctly as the air scoop is too high in the plumbing run of piping and the steel compression tank is elevated slightly to allow the pipe from the air scoop to slope upward to allow the air bubbles to migrate into the water in to the steel compression tank eventually once the air to water balance is corrected.
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So I have that dwyer mark 2 not hooked up, I'll try to find some directions how to get that going, what to fill it with ect. Im all ears for advice on that as well. I cleaned as much of it as I could and the draft may be different now, so I'd like to accurately measure it. There is another expansion tank in the basement of the home that is connected to the system, could that serve the purpose of the steel tank out by the efm?
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I'm considering just calling a proffesional to give the whole system a hearty once over. I'm not sure that I have the time to dial everything in. What might a service call like that cost, any ideas?
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Any input on this?
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- McGiever
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1. The 120v supply, for both clock motor and timer feed input
2. Neutral, only for clock motor to run...
3. Factory wired to jumper or carry over 120v supply to feed switch input side
4. Switch leg output side to cycle the load
oh, guess you edited your post while I was typing...
2. Neutral, only for clock motor to run...
3. Factory wired to jumper or carry over 120v supply to feed switch input side
4. Switch leg output side to cycle the load
oh, guess you edited your post while I was typing...
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So would a by pass loop just go here?
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Yes sorry, I found this.
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I'd probably feel better having an electrician wire this in.
- McGiever
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here, I made it so easy...
N/C - nothing
N/O - your Red wire
COM - your Black wire
Clock - your White wire
If you wanted to get 'fancy'...wire also a 120 volt LED pigtail or panel light between the N/O and Clock screws and each cycle will be displayed with light indication...pretty neat!
Amazon has the LED's
N/C - nothing
N/O - your Red wire
COM - your Black wire
Clock - your White wire
If you wanted to get 'fancy'...wire also a 120 volt LED pigtail or panel light between the N/O and Clock screws and each cycle will be displayed with light indication...pretty neat!
Amazon has the LED's
Last edited by McGiever on Thu. Jun. 20, 2019 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Oh sweet, I like that
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I posted my response earlier but it never showed up on the board.
In your first picture with the Dwyer Mark II manometer; you can only use one side of the manometer tubing connection in the top and not both.
Pour the dyed fluid in the filler hole and then turn the adjustment knob all the way to the right and stop; then turn the adjustment knob to the left until the fluid level reaches zero. any excess fluid has to be removed with a pipe cleaner and the pipe cleaner disposed of.
Attach one end of the tubing to the low side of the manometer and the other end to a piece of brake line and put it in the hole in the E of the fire inspection door and just make sure it does not slide into the door.
In your second image simply fill the end of the tube with some caulk and leave it at that.
In the third image with the steel compression tank there is really nothing you can do with it as you do not have a drain in it to create the proper water to air ratio.
You cannot have a steel compression tank and a bladder tank in the same system UNLESS one system is shut off from the other and bypassed to use either boiler for the heating and hot water needs.
You need a steam plumber to fix this and fix it right and be prepared to have all the plumbing ripped out and fixed which any good plumber would tell you should be done as its going to take time and materials to correct all the bad plumbing.
In your first picture with the Dwyer Mark II manometer; you can only use one side of the manometer tubing connection in the top and not both.
Pour the dyed fluid in the filler hole and then turn the adjustment knob all the way to the right and stop; then turn the adjustment knob to the left until the fluid level reaches zero. any excess fluid has to be removed with a pipe cleaner and the pipe cleaner disposed of.
Attach one end of the tubing to the low side of the manometer and the other end to a piece of brake line and put it in the hole in the E of the fire inspection door and just make sure it does not slide into the door.
In your second image simply fill the end of the tube with some caulk and leave it at that.
In the third image with the steel compression tank there is really nothing you can do with it as you do not have a drain in it to create the proper water to air ratio.
You cannot have a steel compression tank and a bladder tank in the same system UNLESS one system is shut off from the other and bypassed to use either boiler for the heating and hot water needs.
You need a steam plumber to fix this and fix it right and be prepared to have all the plumbing ripped out and fixed which any good plumber would tell you should be done as its going to take time and materials to correct all the bad plumbing.