New Install EFM excessive coal usage?
Hi. I have a 520 that has been up and running since March 10th. My boiler is located in a 28x40 insulated pole barn and is piped to the house (aprox 1700sq ft using baseboard heaters). The plan was to heat pole barn as well, at least keep it 40-50 degrees. Underground pex is 90' of PerformaFlex pex from Z Supply. From there pex goes through garage and then crawl space about 60' (all wrapped with insulation) and then meets my oil boiler in cellar. Have one circulator pump feeding the house and have another hooked up for a zone in the pole barn. So far the boiler itself is keeping the barn at 50-60 degrees even on a few 0 degree mornings without even running the zone out there. Everything has been working very well except for the coal usage I have adjusted feed and air on just about every setting but I cant seem to get the coal usage down. I burn between 120-160lbs per day. My first ton lasted just shy of two weeks. And other than a few cold nights day time temps haven't been that cold here (near Syracuse NY). I currently run the feed on 3 and the air on 5. It seems to be a very nice fire and the ash looks well burnt. The exhaust is 8'' steel stove pipe for about 8' and then it gets reduced to 6'' pipe. My barometric damper needs adjustment ( it has not worked at all so far, never see it open) but its not perfectly level so I know i need to fix that. I also know the chimney vents very well (previous woodstove) and maybe too well at least thats my thought right now. Oh I tried my infarred thermometer on the pex I had 170 at boiler and 165 at house boiler ( efm is set right now at 170 for high temp).
I apologize for the long post but wanted to give details. My father has a very similar setup and a bigger house he uses 8-9 ton a year. If anyone can give advice and help me slow this thing down I would really appreciate it.
I apologize for the long post but wanted to give details. My father has a very similar setup and a bigger house he uses 8-9 ton a year. If anyone can give advice and help me slow this thing down I would really appreciate it.
Attachments
- Rob R.
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 17981
- Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
- Location: Chazy, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr
Unless there is something unusual about your setup, that is a lot of air for 3 teeth of feed. Between that and not knowing if the draft is correct, you may be sending a lot of heat up the chimney. I never run these at less than 4 teeth, but if you really want to run at 3 teeth the air should be about 3.5.
You are heating a lot of space, and also losing some heat underground. You can probably get to the same usage as your dad, but this will never be a coal miser with that kind of heat load.
You are heating a lot of space, and also losing some heat underground. You can probably get to the same usage as your dad, but this will never be a coal miser with that kind of heat load.
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I'm not sure what you are trying to get your coal usage down to but this is a remote install so you are heating the ground as well as the house and the outbuilding. The better insulated the pipe the less you heat the ground, but you are still heating the ground.
-Don
That is 2 problems right there. An EFM 520 requires an 8" chimney. The chimney draft at full fire should be no more than -.05 inches of water. The over fire draft should be at least -.01 inches at full fire. Did you measure the draft???
Where did you come up with those settings? 3 teeth is not really a viable setting, especially with the load you have on the boiler. You can't dial in a coal stoker by looking at what is in the ash pan. You need to set the feed rate to match the heat load, then set the air so you have 1" to 2" of ash on the fire pot during a long run.
-Don
- nepacoal
- Member
- Posts: 1696
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 21, 2012 7:49 am
- Location: Coal Country
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4 / "Kelly" and an EFM 520 at my in-laws
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF-260 - retired
- Coal Size/Type: Buck
In case you need a copy of the manual...
+1on checking/setting draft.. Page 10 lists the probable cause for excessive coal consumption. You have 3 out of the 10 listed(low feed, high air, and likely high stack temps). The last page shows the typical air and feed rates. You can usually get a used magnehelic manometer on ebay for less than $30 or purchase a new Dwyer like many here have for slightly less. I prefer the magnehelic (make sure it's the right scale 0 to .25)...
+1on checking/setting draft.. Page 10 lists the probable cause for excessive coal consumption. You have 3 out of the 10 listed(low feed, high air, and likely high stack temps). The last page shows the typical air and feed rates. You can usually get a used magnehelic manometer on ebay for less than $30 or purchase a new Dwyer like many here have for slightly less. I prefer the magnehelic (make sure it's the right scale 0 to .25)...
Attachments
Last edited by nepacoal on Thu. Apr. 04, 2019 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Scottscoaled
- Member
- Posts: 2812
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 08, 2008 9:51 pm
- Location: Malta N.Y.
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
- Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
- Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
- Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup
I see three things wrong that will chew thru the coal. First, you are losing 5 degrees in 90 feet. Boiler to boiler. It should only be a degree or two. If you are running you pump continuously, tat will end up being big coal use. Why the big differential?
Second, related to third, your barometric needs to be mounted lower in the pipe and operating correctly. It needs to break the draft when your boiler stops running. It also needs to let air into the exhaust to slow down the draft. If it isn't working right, the heat just keeps flowing faster and blows out your exhaust. More heat goes outside instead of staying in your boiler. Third, a setting of four, five and six teeth would be your most economical settings. A four teeth coal bed that is the proper width is way hotter than a three tooth bed that is burning low in the pot. It is also way hotter than a six tooth fire that is burning low in the bed. The problem you would have, is that if you don't have your damper adjusted right, a hotter fire would just throw more heat out the chimney and you would use more coal. Your damper is a coal efficiency maker or breaker.
Second, related to third, your barometric needs to be mounted lower in the pipe and operating correctly. It needs to break the draft when your boiler stops running. It also needs to let air into the exhaust to slow down the draft. If it isn't working right, the heat just keeps flowing faster and blows out your exhaust. More heat goes outside instead of staying in your boiler. Third, a setting of four, five and six teeth would be your most economical settings. A four teeth coal bed that is the proper width is way hotter than a three tooth bed that is burning low in the pot. It is also way hotter than a six tooth fire that is burning low in the bed. The problem you would have, is that if you don't have your damper adjusted right, a hotter fire would just throw more heat out the chimney and you would use more coal. Your damper is a coal efficiency maker or breaker.
Last edited by Scottscoaled on Thu. Apr. 04, 2019 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ok, I never measured the draft- I honestly didn't know how to but I will look for the proper tool to do so.
As for the settings, I really have just played with them from feed of 6 to 3 and everywhere between. When I first ran it I had it at 6 and I don't think I had enough air because I wasn't getting a good ash ring and the fire was filling the pot and actually pushing unburnt coal into the ash pan. I have found that at 3 and 5 on air I get good looking ash and can keep that ash ring the book talks about. Im not saying Im right this just what I have found thus far as this is all new to me.
As for the heat loss of five degrees. Thats on a underground run of 90' plus another 60' inside. Im not arguing that its insignificant because it is not but I do know I lack insulation in one area that I know needs it and also I assume some variation in the temp gun itself.
Based on these comments, I will definitely look into measuring my draft and then boost the feed up a bit. Does anyone have a recommendation on Feed and air? I assumed I would need more feed in cold weather but since it hasnt been too cold I was thinking 3 was ok. Thanks for the replys
As for the settings, I really have just played with them from feed of 6 to 3 and everywhere between. When I first ran it I had it at 6 and I don't think I had enough air because I wasn't getting a good ash ring and the fire was filling the pot and actually pushing unburnt coal into the ash pan. I have found that at 3 and 5 on air I get good looking ash and can keep that ash ring the book talks about. Im not saying Im right this just what I have found thus far as this is all new to me.
As for the heat loss of five degrees. Thats on a underground run of 90' plus another 60' inside. Im not arguing that its insignificant because it is not but I do know I lack insulation in one area that I know needs it and also I assume some variation in the temp gun itself.
Based on these comments, I will definitely look into measuring my draft and then boost the feed up a bit. Does anyone have a recommendation on Feed and air? I assumed I would need more feed in cold weather but since it hasnt been too cold I was thinking 3 was ok. Thanks for the replys
-
- Member
- Posts: 788
- Joined: Tue. Nov. 13, 2012 9:05 am
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1948 International boiler, EFM S-20 stoker
- Coal Size/Type: Buck,
MJ, Get a draft meter and set up your dampener. Bump the feed to 5 or 6. be sure that there are no leaks around the ash door or auger pipe. And last, get the best coal you can find. Poor quality coal will make many issues.
Dave
Dave
- coalkirk
- Member
- Posts: 5185
- Joined: Wed. May. 17, 2006 8:12 pm
- Location: Forest Hill MD
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520 retired
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Jotul 507 on standby
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite/rice coal
Try 4 and 4. Maybe 4.5 on the air. I agree with Don about the chimney. Reducing it to 6" is not good. Saying your baro is not working well because it doesn't open ain't necessarily so. Until you can measure your draft you are shooting in the dark. And yes the baro should be down lower n the vertical section of the vent pipe.mjeg wrote: ↑Wed. Apr. 03, 2019 9:25 pmBased on these comments, I will definitely look into measuring my draft and then boost the feed up a bit. Does anyone have a recommendation on Feed and air? I assumed I would need more feed in cold weather but since it hasnt been too cold I was thinking 3 was ok. Thanks for the replys
How are you heating the barn? just residual heat off of the boiler or is there a radiator or something else?
- coalkirk
- Member
- Posts: 5185
- Joined: Wed. May. 17, 2006 8:12 pm
- Location: Forest Hill MD
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520 retired
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Jotul 507 on standby
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite/rice coal
MJEG - I assume you understand what the purpose of the baro is and how it should work? You set it with a manometer to limit the maximum draft. Lets say you want your draft to be no more than .05. With the boiler firing you adjust the baro until the draft is down to that level. That's assuming you have excess draft. From what we can see in your pic I'm guessing you have excess draft. Then as the boiler fires and your draft reaches .05 the damper will open.