Coalgun S130 square footage question

scottybk wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 26, 2019 9:03 pm

I guess you are plumbed with all copper, since I understand that PEX can't handle more than 200 degrees?

Also how exactly does a "dump zone" work? What kind of valve opens to dump the water when it gets too hot ?

Normally one of the zones in the heating system is hooked to an aquastat that turns on the appropriate circulator (or opens a zone valve) when the boiler reaches a certain temperature. If you have pex in the system, just set the dump zone at 200 degrees.

A 260 is not overkill, especially if your going to DHW.

The only thing should circulate 24/7 is the 1/1/4 loop to the house.

I have 1/1/4” pex buried from my boiler room to the house, it circulates 24/7 through my water to water dhw exchanger, which I suggest is what you should do also, circulate through a water to water for unlimited on demand dhw, using a manifold system, and then you either use zone valves or other circulators to send heat to your baseboard zones in the house, along with a manifold system in the shop basement by the boiler.

Come off the boiler with 1/1/2 black iron to a manifold system in the shop, (which will house your expansion tank and auto fill valve,) which will have a 1/1/4 leg for the house with the appropriate circulator on it, and then have the rest of the legs whatever size for your baseboard zones in the shop, probably 3/4”, your fine with pex for everything past the manifold in the shop.

Thanks for the replies.

OK, I understand to prevent freezing I need to circulate thru the buried thermopex to the house (and then back to the boiler) 24/7 to prevent freezing, but if it circulates 24/7 how does the water ever "stay" in the boiler long enough to be reheated? Or is there just always enough hot water passing thru the boiler itself to keep it hot enough? I would think there would need to be a valve to "trap" a certain amount of water in the boiler for a certain amount of time so it can reheat to at least 175 degrees or so.

Nope don’t worry, you’ll never run out of heated boiler water with a 260. There’s I believe around 58-60 gallons in there, and a constant heat source from the fire. And remember, when just circulating through the loop, your return temp will only be a degree or two less than what’s going out. So there’s practically nothing to heat back up.

Keep in mind that you can also use low pressure dry steam heat to heat these buildings with a drop header feeding dry steam to the heating system. An S130 used for steam heat can be purchased to make dry steam to heat both buildings.

The S130 and the piping will cost more for the initial purchase with the steam control equipment, belt driven blower, low water cut off and required testing but you will have less plumbing to do with a one pipe dry steam system using a drop header to feed dry steam to both buildings at low pressure.

You would also be able to buy used smaller steam radiators from a salvage yard that have been cleaned and tested.

scottybk wrote: ↑

Sat. Jan. 26, 2019 8:21 pm

I feel like the S 260 is overkill, I wish there was a Coalgun model in between these two sizes.

Maybe a Keystoker KB 8 would be a better choice for this setup?

You are correct that it is a huge jump from a S130 to a S260. You will know if a 260 is required once you finish calculating the heating load. I will be surprised if it is, especially if you do not intend to keep the workshop at 70 degrees.

What features about the Coal Gun have made it your primary choice of boiler?

I love how few moving parts the Coalgun has, although it seems Keystoker has a lot more BTU sizing options.

I'm actually not opposed to a purely hand-fired boiler either, I've run hand fired coal stoves for primary heat for almost 10 years. Those stokers seem like a lot of parts to break or wear out (and of course they'll wait to break until it's 5 below zero outside).

Anyone know of a good hand-fired unit that produces about 200 K btu? Even an older vintage unit is OK as long as parts aren't totally impossible to find,

scottybk wrote: ↑

Sun. Jan. 27, 2019 6:32 pm

I love how few moving parts the Coalgun has, although it seems Keystoker has a lot more BTU sizing options.

I'm actually not opposed to a purely hand-fired boiler either, I've run hand fired coal stoves for primary heat for almost 10 years. Those stokers seem like a lot of parts to break or wear out (and of course they'll wait to break until it's 5 below zero outside).

Anyone know of a good hand-fired unit that produces about 200 K btu? Even an older vintage unit is OK as long as parts aren't totally impossible to find,

DS Machine (now DS Stoves?) is still actively producing their "Aqua Gem" line of hand fired boilers. https://dsofpa.com/ds-products/

lsayre wrote: ↑

Sun. Jan. 27, 2019 6:40 pm

DS Machine (now DS Stoves?) is actively producing hand fired boilers. https://dsofpa.com

Check for latest info, but those are one of the few mfg'r not ASME rated and maybe they are now UL Approved...not sure.

Hope you're not going to make the wife tend a hand fed all the time...

McGiever wrote: ↑

Sun. Jan. 27, 2019 6:44 pm

Check for latest info, but those are one of the few mfg'r not ASME rated and maybe they are now UL Approved...not sure.

The website blurb states: "Each unit is tested to 120 PSI", and "Safety tested to U.L. standards". It does not mention ASME certification. Commercial installs often require ASME for insurance purposes. An ASME 'H' stamp can add thousands of dollars to the cost of a boiler. Most residential areas do not require it, though some may.

scottybk wrote: ↑

Sun. Jan. 27, 2019 6:32 pm

I love how few moving parts the Coalgun has, although it seems Keystoker has a lot more BTU sizing options.

I'm actually not opposed to a purely hand-fired boiler either, I've run hand fired coal stoves for primary heat for almost 10 years. Those stokers seem like a lot of parts to break or wear out (and of course they'll wait to break until it's 5 below zero outside).

Anyone know of a good hand-fired unit that produces about 200 K btu? Even an older vintage unit is OK as long as parts aren't totally impossible to find,

I think handfired boilers combine the worst of two types of heating. They require the frequent tending schedule of hand firing, yet they also require electricity to distribute the heat.

As for the number of moving parts in a stoker, with a descent maintenance program they are all very reliable.

Anyone know what the Aqua Gem 3200 boiler sells for lately? Every website says "call for price." Looks like a nice boiler that might be the perfect size for my needs. My other thought is that the "waste" heat coming off the boiler itself will do a lot to help heat the basement and 1st floor of the outbuilding, so my BTU needs and baseboard runs for the barn are probably not as high as I thought. Plus I plan to beef up the insulation a lot in the outbuilding.

From someone that came from a baseburner and a hot air coal furnace, to a hand fed boiler, to now a 260 stoker, trust me when I say, just skip it and get a stoker.

If u wanna play later, get a stove to play.

scottybk wrote: ↑

Sun. Jan. 27, 2019 7:21 pm

Anyone know what the Aqua Gem 3200 boiler sells for lately? Every website says "call for price." Looks like a nice boiler that might be the perfect size for my needs. My other thought is that the "waste" heat coming off the boiler itself will do a lot to help heat the basement and 1st floor of the outbuilding, so my BTU needs and baseboard runs for the barn are probably not as high as I thought. Plus I plan to beef up the insulation a lot in the outbuilding.

I saw your other post about considering a DS hand-fed boiler. Before you dismiss the advice the "others" are giving you, keep in mind that they have already run hand fed boilers, and have nothing to gain by getting you to buy a stoker. They simply want you to skip the expense of buying a boiler that you are likely to replace with a stoker later, like nearly every one else.

Purchase a nice used or rebuilt stoker boiler for less money than the new hand-fed, and enjoy more consistent heat with a lot less trips out to the shop to tend to the boiler.

We've all been, where you are going...