new boiler install

 
mof1964
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Post by mof1964 » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 8:49 pm

Installed a new to me DF520 boiler. I have the pics posted in the "pictures of your boiler thread".
a couple comments were made about not having a bypass loop.
we have a feed loop to a marathon hot water heater- this is acting like a hot water holding tank. The previous owner had everything set up this way to have the 80 gallon tank be able to hold the hot water to be able to fill a jacuzzi tub at one time.

Stoker Don recommended that he would not have the system set up this way. My concerns from his comments are:
will it make the boiler less efficient? the tank came with the boiler I bought and the previous owner had it set up this way to be able to fill a jacuzzi tub completely. I did not have anything like this with my old system, but have noticed that we are now able to run both showers same time without running out of hot water. If it will cause harm to the boiler or make it much less efficient I would eliminate it.


 
CapeCoaler
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Post by CapeCoaler » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 8:57 pm

This is an indirect DHW tank correct...
Not a storage tank for the boiler water...
If it is a DHW tank then no harm...
Has a bigger draw down due to the 80 gallons of stored DHW...
Plus if setup properly it can put more btu into the DHW than a coil in the boiler...

 
mof1964
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Post by mof1964 » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 10:08 pm

Capecoaler not sure I understand your comment. It is actually a Rheem marathon hot water heater that is being used as the storage tank. If I understand the way my buddy has it plumbed up the boiler heats the water in the tank and the tank just gives us extra storage capacity. If there would be an outfire the electric part of the hot water heater would kick in and and keep the water hot. When the boiler is shut down for summer use we just have it as a regular hot water heater.

 
CapeCoaler
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Post by CapeCoaler » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 10:29 pm

Correct...
Some wood burners have a buffer tank for boiler water...
Just makin' sure...
Just a Domestic Hot Water tank...
Running a circulator from the coil in the boiler to a regular electric DHW tank...
Creates the ability to run more GPM of hot water than the coil is capable of alone...
But just a temporary bump...
Most coils run about 4 GPM...
Some up to 6 GPM...
Link for more info...
http://www.htproducts.com/superstor-ultra-waterheater.html

 
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StokerDon
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Post by StokerDon » Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 10:39 pm

Good job on the new thread Mof!

On your 80 gallon tank we seem to have a terminology issue. It sounds like it is NOT a heat storage tank. It is an indirect water heater for domestic hot water. A heat storage tank is a very different thing.

That being said, an 80 gallon indirect water heater is a great way to heat your domestic water. I saw from your pictures that the domestic water coil on the EFM was plumbed in. This is probably first in line then onto the water heater.

Sorry that I didn't understand what you meant the first time.

-Don

 
mof1964
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Post by mof1964 » Sun. Dec. 09, 2018 1:32 pm

yes the coil is new and we are have it plumbed up.
not sure how I can tell if its first in line?

I am wondering if using the hot water heater / heating that water with the boiler will cause me to use a lot more coal?

 
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Post by Pacowy » Sun. Dec. 09, 2018 2:13 pm

If you are circulating hot water between the boiler coil and the external tank, it is unavoidable that btu's will be given off in the process. Electricity will be used to run the circulator, and it seems like additional wear would be put on the coil.

To me, the value of all of that tends to go down as the real-time DHW capacity of the boiler and coil increases. Sure, a small boiler may need help with big DHW loads, but an EFM 520 is a pretty serious DHW machine all on its own. I'd look harder at the circumstances where the EFM coil doesn't keep up with your actual DHW demand, and at least consider things like low limit and feed rate adjustments, and maybe low-volume shower heads. You've already got a pretty good reservoir of btu's in the boiler water, and the ability to produce a sustained 4+ GPM of DHW in real time without any external help.

Mike


 
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Dec. 09, 2018 3:40 pm

mof1964 wrote:
Sat. Dec. 08, 2018 8:49 pm
Installed a new to me DF520 boiler. I have the pics posted in the "pictures of your boiler thread".
a couple comments were made about not having a bypass loop.
we have a feed loop to a marathon hot water heater- this is acting like a hot water holding tank. The previous owner had everything set up this way to have the 80 gallon tank be able to hold the hot water to be able to fill a jacuzzi tub at one time.

Stoker Don recommended that he would not have the system set up this way. My concerns from his comments are:
will it make the boiler less efficient? the tank came with the boiler I bought and the previous owner had it set up this way to be able to fill a jacuzzi tub completely. I did not have anything like this with my old system, but have noticed that we are now able to run both showers same time without running out of hot water. If it will cause harm to the boiler or make it much less efficient I would eliminate it.
The bypass pipe would go between your supply and return header. If can can configured to blend warm water with the return to prevent excessively low boiler temperatures - and also prevents stratification within the boiler when it sits idle.

Your arrangement of the coil and electric water heater is a very cost effective way to have a LOT of hot water available without running a high feed rate on the stoker. It may or may not be necessary depending on your hot water consumption, but it won't hurt anything.

Do not run cold water through the coil when the efm is not in use.

 
mof1964
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Post by mof1964 » Sun. Dec. 09, 2018 4:44 pm

Rob,
This is definitely different then the other hookup but the water heater came with the unit and was hooked up this way in the previous owners home so we figured we would try it as well.
With a couple teenagers taking multiple showers everyday and tons of laundry it can't hurt to try it.

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Sun. Dec. 09, 2018 5:10 pm

Then the tank is justified...
LOL...
But a water saving shower head will not hurt either...

 
mof1964
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Post by mof1964 » Thu. Dec. 27, 2018 8:40 pm

Wondering what amount of coal usage would be normal on my install? We did not have a water heater plumbed in with the old 520 unit. We worked strictly from the coal. We had been burning buckwheat coal in the past and I burned about 5 to 6 tons per year. That produced roughly 2 square tubs of ash per week.
we now have the water heater plumbed in and our burning rice coal. Seems like we are filling between 2 and 3 of the round bushel tubs per week depending on the amount laundry and showers etc.
we have the temp set at 70 on the first and second floor( cape cod type home). I have the stat set at 65 for the basement - which is an all block wall basement. All in all it is close to 3000 sq feet.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Dec. 27, 2018 8:59 pm

You are doing fine. The different DHW setup should not have an appreciable effect on your coal consumption. The rice coal may have a higher ash content than the buck you were burning.

 
mof1964
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Post by mof1964 » Thu. Dec. 27, 2018 9:25 pm

5 tons bagged rice coal kimmels.jpg
.JPG | 423.7KB | 5 tons bagged rice coal kimmels.jpg
I should have stated that we are burning Kimmels bagged rice coal.

 
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Post by nepacoal » Thu. Dec. 27, 2018 9:47 pm

I believe the square tubs hold quite a bit more than the round bushel tubs... 2 square tubs might equal 3 round.

 
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Post by lzaharis » Thu. Dec. 27, 2018 10:42 pm

mof1964 wrote:
Thu. Dec. 27, 2018 9:25 pm
5 tons bagged rice coal kimmels.jpg I should have stated that we are burning Kimmels bagged rice coal.
=================================================================================================


Hello mof1964,

As you have found out already that the kimmels polyester sewn bags are slicker than snot on a rock can i make a suggestion to prevent an avalanche of bags in the near future? If at all possible the next time you have bags to stack its easier to stack the bags starting at the ends of where you want the bags to be stored. By laying the bags flat on the ground with the first bags laid down flat and against a vertical 2 by 12 on each end starting the pile you will build up the corners first 8 rows high and then fill in the center of the row and the bags will flatten and settle out as you stack them.
Perhaps offering a pizza bribe to the rug rats for re stacking the bags will help you avoid having to deal with a coal bag avalanche in the future dead of winter the coming winter.


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