Battle of the Boilers

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 6:32 pm

CoalJockey wrote:
Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 6:03 pm
I’ve been a part of this forum for over 10 years plus... and I must say this is the first time I can remember someone opening the house up wide open and running all the domestic water out in an effort to burn less coal. You Axeman/AHS guys are quickly killing your own argument on the efficiency of these things.

My dad used to yell out when we were kids... “Close the damn door, we are not heating the outside”!

Might as well heat all of the Northeast U.S. through a single 2 foot copper pipe while your at it HB and save me some coal here in PA too! :lol: :lol: :lol:
How much u burn per day?


 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 7:49 pm

If you want to compare coal consumption, you should do it in a manner that allows for your location, size of the home, and temperature of the house. I will run the numbers for you guys if you provide the inputs. I need:

1. Closest weather station zip code.
2. Temperature you keep each floor or building, and the corresponding floor area & ceiling height.
3. Quantity of coal burned last heating season. (assumed to be 11/1 - 5/1)

We can even revive an old thread: So You Want to Compare Coal Usage.

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 8:03 pm

Lol it was just a jab back at coal jockey.

But for the heck of it..

1. 12978. (Saranac pulp hill station)

2. 1140 sq ft 8’ ceiling, 74 degrees.
1140 sqft 8’ ceilings, 70 degrees.
Dhw of coarse.

3. 10,000 pounds burnt.

 
User avatar
CoalJockey
Verified Business Rep.
Posts: 1324
Joined: Sun. Mar. 09, 2008 11:18 am
Location: Loysburg, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Several EFM 520 refurbs...one 900, one 1300 mega-stoker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: (2) Warm Morning Stoves

Post by CoalJockey » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 11:03 pm

I just want to make sure you know it’s in good jest HB and I’m not trying to hi-Jack your thread but the kids are in bed and I’m bored. Just a shot across your bow, not a shot AT your bow! :)

I will let the calculations up to Rob but mine breaks down as follows:

1. Martinsburg Airport (AOO) is the closest NOAA reporting station to me
2. 1920 square feet gross area above grade with 880 square feet basement heated by the bare in-insulated boiler alone. 11 foot high ceilings.
3. Heated to 74* about 99% of the time, both floors plus the domestic hot water needs for a family of four
4. From mid-October to mid-April I burnt 8.25 tons

I know the following does not count for the calculations but consider it the rest of the story. This place was built in 1830 on a stone foundation, basement walls are not plastered. My Peterbilt cab has more insulation in it than what this place does, there is not an ounce of it anywhere. All exterior walls are triple-brick only, no studs. Twenty-one windows, 19 of them are 90 inches high. The stoker ran all Winter long on the same 4-tooth feed setting... basically as low as you can go.

I’m mainly poking fun at the amount of unburnt coal in your ash, seems to be the common theme around here on the AHS/Axeman threads the last 2 weeks. For the amount of time you guys have spent fiddling around trying to dial these in, you could have hand-fired a boiler and skipped the unburnt coal. I keep looking for a hysteresis adjustment on mine and can’t find it. :lol:

In the last year I have made one adjustment on the 520 and that was moving the air needle from 4.5 to 4.75, due to running Lehigh rice instead of the usual Blaschak. I ran an old S-15 stoker for 10 years that was basically not much more than a collection of parts and it ate TOTAL garbage most of the time. Whatever the nastiest looking rice coal we had at the back of the pile after the goodies were loaded out, I toted it up through the yard and burnt it and the ash never even came close to the descriptions and pictures I’ve seen around here lately. And even through all that I never farted around much with the settings like you guys are and it heated over 3,000 square feet that was as efficient as a screen door.

Even as cantankerous and temperamental the 1300 is to get lit, once it is on-line nothing changes. It’s been set at the same feed and air rate for nearly 10 years. I’m sorry but after following along these AHS threads here lately, I declare... EFM=Light it, walk away, forget about it.

I am not badmouthing Axeman/AHS or anyone’s installations, the are unique machines in their own right. I also agree that you will do much better with a bigger load when you build your garage... but you are not the only one posting about ash filled with unburnt coal. One guy even tried sifting it out and running it back through. Low stack temps mean nothing when the ash can is full of black. Oh, and mine never puffed back at me.

Here is the ash tub I just pulled. You have to sift pretty hard to find any black, there is always some but it is always very little. Very consistent with the EFM manuals description of what the ash should look like.

Attachments

187A6A9B-4493-4382-976E-7A5228D88E0E.jpeg
.JPEG | 1.4MB | 187A6A9B-4493-4382-976E-7A5228D88E0E.jpeg

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 6:03 am

I understand you like your Efms lol you Efm guys are very proud! I’ve seen some in action, they do burn coal. I will say though.. I think there are more efm problem threads than AA/ahs/eshland combined. Lol

I personally just cannot stand that clicking lol and I wouldn’t wanna be tied to only rice or buckwheat, which I don’t think many can get buck it seems like.. I like having the option of being able to burn anything from rice to nut size if I needed to, and I buy bulk TT loads with hand fed people, do pea or nut it is.

I didn’t have a problem last year with coal in my ash, I think it’s either I didn’t light it properly which would be my own fault, or it’s this new load of coal, but my FIL is not having a problem with his hand fed so I think I just didn’t get it going good enough.

Oh and I have never once had a puff back lmao just for the record..

All I’ve done to the boiler this year as far as “farting around so much with it” is walk out to the boiler building and press a button 3 times to change the temp, yesterday when dumping my ash I cleaned the front of the grate off and I did the procedure in the manual that your suppose to do to light it..

And I’ve hand fired boilers furnaces and stoves, I’ll take dumping my ash every 4-7 days vs tending every 12-24 hours lol

Sounds like I’m burning 3 ton less than you... in a lot colder climate... with a boiler that is “over-sized” that I guess could heat 4 of my houses and the driveway to it... and it’s in an outbuilding which I guess is the worst thing to do!

All in fun though! I know how you truck drivers get... lol

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 6:11 am

CoalJockey wrote:
Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 11:03 pm
I just want to make sure you know it’s in good jest HB and I’m not trying to hi-Jack your thread but the kids are in bed and I’m bored. Just a shot across your bow, not a shot AT your bow! :)

I will let the calculations up to Rob but mine breaks down as follows:

1. Martinsburg Airport (AOO) is the closest NOAA reporting station to me
2. 1920 square feet gross area above grade with 880 square feet basement heated by the bare in-insulated boiler alone. 11 foot high ceilings.
3. Heated to 74* about 99% of the time, both floors plus the domestic hot water needs for a family of four
4. From mid-October to mid-April I burnt 8.25 tons
How tall are the ceilings in the basement? The basement is 74 degrees also?

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 6:12 am

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 8:03 pm
Lol it was just a jab back at coal jockey.

But for the heck of it..

1. 12978. (Saranac pulp hill station)

2. 1140 sq ft 8’ ceiling, 74 degrees.
1140 sqft 8’ ceilings, 70 degrees.
Dhw of coarse.

3. 10,000 pounds burnt.
How big is your outbuilding? Do you keep it at a certain temperature? or it just is what it is.


 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 6:18 am

Rob R. wrote:
Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 6:12 am
How big is your outbuilding? Do you keep it at a certain temperature? or it just is what it is.
224 sq ft 8’ ceilings, heated off the boiler excess.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 1:16 pm

I split this discussion of the S260 thread. Working through the numbers right now to try and compare these two heating beasts.

It is easy to compare one system (boiler & house) to another, not so much to try and allow for the large differences in home design.

 
User avatar
BunkerdCaddis
Member
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun. Jan. 18, 2015 10:26 am
Location: SW Lancaster County
Stoker Coal Boiler: Bairmatic-Van Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Van Wert VW85H
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II working when I feel the desire, Waterford 105 out on vacation, Surdiac Gotha hiding somewhere
Coal Size/Type: pea/nut/rice/stove-anthracite, nut/stove bit when I feel the urge
Other Heating: oil fired hydronic

Post by BunkerdCaddis » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 5:42 pm


 
User avatar
CoalJockey
Verified Business Rep.
Posts: 1324
Joined: Sun. Mar. 09, 2008 11:18 am
Location: Loysburg, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Several EFM 520 refurbs...one 900, one 1300 mega-stoker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: (2) Warm Morning Stoves

Post by CoalJockey » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 7:05 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 6:11 am
How tall are the ceilings in the basement? The basement is 74 degrees also?
Thanks Rob. My basement ceilings are 8 feet high and 74 would be a fair average. It is around 80 near the boiler and about 70 or so at the far end of the basement. I think HBs coal consumption is not out of line at all considering the oversized boiler, but as you stated he is also heating a brand-new insulated house. I would love to see what studded walls and insulation would do here but I am dead-set on keeping the house true to history and as original as possible... it’s not happening.

HB, of course there are more EFM problem threads, to be fair they likely outsold Axeman and AHS five-fold, and I don’t mean that as a slam. In the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s every basement from Tower City to Tamaqua had an EFM or a Keystoker in it. I can count on the fingers of one hand how many AHS/Axeman units run coal from our yard... and AHS is built right over the mountain from me. Keystoker dominated my immediate area here in the 80’s due to a plethora of good dealers and installers. I grew up in this business and personally never even seen an AHS in this area until 2004 although there was one lone Axeman we shipped to for many years prior.

Overall, I was not trying to make fun of your consumption as much as I was you and some others in the AHS crowd wondering why only half the coal was burnt. At any rate, I will play. I feel I have nothing to be embarrassed over either considering the size and construction of this place. Your climate is colder indeed, but four score and seven years ago, insulation was an afterthought.

EDIT... clicking noise? Your supposed to put oil in the bath... I have to put pressure on the pawl with my thumb to hear any clicks. I get more unpleasant noise coming off that Sid Harvey’s blower motor than anything and that has nothing to do with the stoker.
Last edited by CoalJockey on Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
User avatar
CoalJockey
Verified Business Rep.
Posts: 1324
Joined: Sun. Mar. 09, 2008 11:18 am
Location: Loysburg, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Several EFM 520 refurbs...one 900, one 1300 mega-stoker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: (2) Warm Morning Stoves

Post by CoalJockey » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 7:16 pm

BunkerdCaddis wrote:
Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 5:42 pm
sorry if I'm late popcorn line was long.jpg
BC, this may be the only chance I ever get to bust the stones on a DOT cop and not have to pay a fine over it! I just hope if I burn too much coal this year he wont write me up for an overweight fee and red tag me where I sit! :lol: (Not that such things have ever happened before...more than once... :stfu: )
hotblast1357 wrote:
Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 6:03 am

All in fun though! I know how you truck drivers get... lol
:out: :out: :out:

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 7:26 pm

I am heating a brand new home.

In probably the worst way possible right now..

until my plans come together later in life with the addition of the shop, because then the boiler room will be part of the shop, and I will gain that radiant heat off the boiler into the shop.

And I will tell you this, this brand new home of mine, is not that impressive, it needs probably 8-10” more of insulation in the attic, the rim joist needs to be re-done, and the windows and doors are terrible. Wish I could of afforded to buy all the materials and built it myself..

One other way to look at the forum traffic... you never hear of all the good things, only when an issue arises..

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 7:27 pm

CoalJockey wrote:
Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 7:16 pm
BC, this may be the only chance I ever get to bust the stones on a DOT cop and not have to pay a fine over it! I just hope if I burn too much coal this year he wont write me up for an overweight fee and red tag me where I sit! :lol: (Not that such things have ever happened before...more than once... :stfu: )

:out: :out: :out:
Lol you guys make enough money those fines are pennies!

 
User avatar
BunkerdCaddis
Member
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun. Jan. 18, 2015 10:26 am
Location: SW Lancaster County
Stoker Coal Boiler: Bairmatic-Van Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Van Wert VW85H
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II working when I feel the desire, Waterford 105 out on vacation, Surdiac Gotha hiding somewhere
Coal Size/Type: pea/nut/rice/stove-anthracite, nut/stove bit when I feel the urge
Other Heating: oil fired hydronic

Post by BunkerdCaddis » Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 8:55 pm

CoalJockey wrote:
Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 7:16 pm
BC, this may be the only chance I ever get to bust the stones on a DOT cop and not have to pay a fine over it! I just hope if I burn too much coal this year he wont write me up for an overweight fee and red tag me where I sit! :lol: (Not that such things have ever happened before...more than once...
hotblast1357 wrote:
Mon. Nov. 12, 2018 7:27 pm
you guys make enough money those fines are pennies!
Hey... I'm just the guy in the passenger seat... :lol: :clap: :out:


Post Reply

Return to “Stoker Coal Boilers Using Anthracite (Hydronic & Steam)”