Buckwheat to Rice settings? Keystone Keystoker KA6

 
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Sun. Nov. 04, 2018 1:58 pm

Planning on switching from Buckwheat to Rice in our Keystoker KA-6 boiler and wonder if someone has a rough idea where to start with the adjustments?

We've been using buckwheat successfully for several years, satisfied that we have 'extra' firing capability with the larger coal. But so far we have NEVER needed the higher rate.

In fact, I think our standby losses are higher than they need to be with the fan running on low all the time and cut way back.

So now looking to switch to RICE and slow my roll, LOL. It will help a little with the frequency of refilling the hopper, and maybe I will have better luck with a Coal-vac ;)

So can anyone give me a starting point for feed rate and timer cycle? Preferably something like, "4 turns less than buckwheat" since we have a good buckwheat one now- but I'm willing to start from scratch, too.

I guesstimate we are using about 20% or so more coal than we need to with standby and firing losses.

Thanks.


 
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Sun. Nov. 04, 2018 7:25 pm

After reading the word "fines" in posts where others are burning rice, I think I'll stick with buckwheat, but play with the settings to have much less runtime. Maybe faster feed, more combustion air (open restrictor plate), and fewer cycles with the timer.

I'll probably never keep a fire going again :o LOL.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 05, 2018 5:33 am

I guesstimate we are using about 20% or so more coal than we need to with standby and firing losses.
How did you determine that? I don't see why burning rice instead of buck would change your coal consumption - it never made any difference for me.

Keystoker's manual says the following:
Initial coal feed: Advance red nut all the way forward. Then turn it counter clockwise 11 or 12
turns if burning rice coal, if burning buckwheat coal turn coal feed, back 9 or 10 turns. When
boiler is running for about an hour under full load grates should have about 2” of dead ash on
them before falling into the ash pan.

 
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Post by lzaharis » Mon. Nov. 05, 2018 7:41 am

You should examine using the single fan set up using buckwheat coal.

In my KAA-4-1 I use 140 low -160 high summer operating temperatures for the heating season and to make hot water and I am burning much less coal using Buckwheat size Anthracite Coal this year and there is less ash and fewer fines.

My only difference is that my system uses the single fan and I have my timer set up with 4 firing periods per half hour to keep the fire going and I am using 4 gallon pails for the ash.

If you switch to the single fan set up and go to a 3 minutes at zero time, 2 minutes at 8 minutes, 3 minutes at 15 minutes and 2 minutes at 22 minutes you will use less buckwheat coal. this is my first year using buckwheat coal and I am very impressed with how the boiler is working with 7-8 threads out on the pusher plate.

 
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Mon. Nov. 05, 2018 9:15 am

Thank you for the replies!

You guys might be right on target. My stoker runs VERY often with the timer, so I am pushing more coal to keep it up.

I figured smaller coal = more density = less auger time and more on the bed at a time. Figured that would be less auger time with the secondary fan running more and I'd open up the restrictor plate on it.

But the buckwheat IS very consistent in size and the way we load, we don't get a lot of fines. Rice would open that Pandora's box.

My 20% 'extra' is my guesstimate of how much coal we burn when not having a real big demand. I could still cut the timer cycles and open the secondary.

Thanks for the idea where to start with settings on that path.

I cleaned the boiler yesterday but found I need to re-cement the grates, replace the flat gasket on the stoker to boiler vertical flange, the hopper to stoker gasket, and replace a couple of pieces of stove pipe (from the 'temporary galvanized' when I couldn't find black pipe a few years ago)

So it's NOT running last night as planned.

We have a zone for IDHW tank during firing season, so running 165-190F. I am not opposed to putting a switch on the secondary fan, or changing that setting. We are not using the DHW coil, though it is installed.

I have the feeling I'll need more guidance and suggestions as the 'fun' progresses and I get to practice my fire lighting procedures ;)

Your KAA4-1...is the stoker the same size? I know some of them are smaller. Does that make much difference in translating the settings?

I know this is a LOT of stuff and I've asked similar things in the past. I had a very major health situation last year that has 'paused' for the moment, so want to get this stuff done while I can.

Thanks for the help and reading this small novel :D

 
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Post by lzaharis » Mon. Nov. 05, 2018 10:22 am

Hello CoalisCoolxWarm

I know the KAA-2, KAA-4, KAA-4-1 have the same three bed flat fire grate stoker. I believe your KA-6 stoker has the different stoker mechanism with the exposed threaded rod adjustment and the sloped fire grate compared to the flat 3 grate wide unit shared by the KAA-2, KAA-4, KAA-4-1.

I would change your timer settings to what I have and disable the secondary fan and keep burning Buckwheat Anthracite Coal.

 
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Tue. Nov. 06, 2018 2:26 pm

I am definitely willing to give that a try! Thanks for the settings to try.

Sorry for the delay responding, they were replacing telephone poles and moving the lines. The cable line didn't reach and was cut, so no internet for a day.


 
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Post by gaw » Fri. Nov. 09, 2018 12:28 pm

You should be able set your timer for one to one and a half minutes run time per fifteen minutes. The older Keystoker timer was a fifteen minute cycle with one adjustable notch to set run time.

I believe when I used rice I backed the feed off about three or four turns. This does not feed less coal it is because the rice feeds more freely due to the smaller size. I am pleased with the buck and can’t blame you for staying with it.

 
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Fri. Nov. 09, 2018 1:58 pm

Well, it is up and running again! Just waiting for the water to heat up.

Once things are up and going for the 25F temps tonight, I'll get my current settings and maybe whatever we change or experience can help the next guys ;)

Thanks!

 
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Post by msgjdb » Thu. Dec. 01, 2022 8:00 pm

Hi

Getting my KA-6 hooked up this coming week, had my first 2 Tons in of rice coal delivered with it.

Can someone explain what you mean by fines? Is buckwheat coal better to burn then rice coal?

Thank you

 
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Post by nepacoal » Thu. Dec. 01, 2022 8:39 pm

Fines are the tiny pieces of coal and coal dust usually caused by moving it around (delivery, shoveling, etc...). Fines are part of using coal and are not a huge deal if they are not excessive. Getting a delivery of overly "dirty" coal can require small adjustments to the feed and air but as long as you only use completely dry coal, it's not an issue.

I'd say most people use rice in keystokers. It works great. Some use buckwheat as it has a slightly faster recovery time and provides a few extra BTUs.

 
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Post by msgjdb » Thu. Dec. 01, 2022 8:49 pm

Thank you! I know some of my coal is wet due to the water running out of bags as we brought them into basement. Where are the placees fines are most commonly found? Any suggestions or things you wish yoy would have known?

 
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Post by lzaharis » Thu. Dec. 01, 2022 8:59 pm

msgjdb wrote:
Thu. Dec. 01, 2022 8:00 pm
Hi

Getting my KA-6 hooked up this coming week, had my first 2 tons in of rice coal delivered with it.

Can someone explain what you mean by fines? Is buckwheat coal better to burn then rice coal?

Thank you
===================================================================================================

Coal fines are just heavy coal dust.

Coal fines in Anthracite Coal occur for many reasons including the mining process, primary and secondary crushing in a tertiary crushing circuit to break oversize coal, screening the final product for final coal size, impacting the storage hopper or being conveyed to the outside stockpile by multiple conveyor flights where the coal is transferred to the next conveyor flight before it is dumped in a hopper feeding a bagging line or a coal pile, handling and repeat handling to load a delivery truck to the local coal yard, transporting the coal by truck or rail where the coal grinds against itself. I can go into more detail but I do not want to bore anyone with it.

I tried burning Buckwheat Anthracite Coal by itself in my keystoker and I found that it did not burn very well at all and did no put out a lot of heat.

I tried using a mix of Buckwheat Anthracite coal and Rice Anthracite Coal and the mixing amounted to dumping one bucket of rice Anthracite Coal in the dump trailer and a bucket of Buck anthracite coal and they did not mix unless I scooped them together and then they separated anyway so when they sell you a mix it is not much of a mix.

I had the same result where it burned poorly and did not make a lot of heat and went back to using Anthracite Rice Coal.

 
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Post by nepacoal » Thu. Dec. 01, 2022 9:00 pm

Wet coal is the devil!!! It probably causes 90% of stoker issues brought up on this forum. My advice, never ever use wet coal.

Fines are in all coal to some extent... From what I've seen here, bags tend to have more fines than bulk and bags often have lots of water. But, it's also possible to get a bad load of dirty bulk coal. Like I said, just use dry, very dry coal and you will have very few issues.

Wet fines can dry into a very hard, concrete like mess that can clog up passages and impede pusher bars. I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but... Use dry coal!!!

 
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Post by gaw » Fri. Dec. 02, 2022 6:06 am

msgjdb wrote:
Thu. Dec. 01, 2022 8:49 pm
Thank you! I know some of my coal is wet due to the water running out of bags as we brought them into basement. Where are the placees fines are most commonly found? Any suggestions or things you wish yoy would have known?
In dry coal the fines will always find their way to the bottom. 🙂


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